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[Music]

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to

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head of paradigms shifted in the truths

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questioned and now shattered reality hey

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Kate I'm doing okay

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today is April 24th 2018 and I would

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like to welcome you back Kate

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to shattered reality thank you you've

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been out for a couple of weeks and and

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and we're so happy to have you back here

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on the show it's not the same without

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you believe me so spring is springing

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here and the Northeast and we have a

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really wonderful show today we have a

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very very interesting gentleman coming

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on the show he has written a book called

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incident at Devil's Den he is a lawyer

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and he is a former assistant attorney

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general he has served in the Air Force

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just post Vietnam he was he got into the

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Air Force as as Vietnam was winding down

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he's a married man with two children and

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two grandchildren he's an all-around

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regular guy the kind of guy that you

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would definitely think would be telling

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an honest truthful story and what I'm

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going to suggest to you here Kate

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is that as we introduce our guests after

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we say hello to him I think in this

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particular case we're just unlike our

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usual chatty bratty selves

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um we are just gonna let him tell this

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story at the beginning and then we'll

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ask him questions later on so we're

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gonna kind of sit back which is not

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generally what we do if that's okay with

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you Kate I think that's a great idea

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fascinating story Wow it is an amazing

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amazing story

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so what amazes me more is that how would

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someone see something like this in

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reporting the next thing they have to do

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is say oh you know how just go over

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their entire background make them a

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credible witness as if as if someone's

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going to report something like this

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otherwise I always has annoyed me that

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they had to go overboard to prove

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they're credible witness which Terry you

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certainly are I mean without that you

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know and as you mentioned too in your

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book you know you were certainly nervous

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about doing this while you were working

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in a field where this would be scoffed

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at you hear the Snickers behind your

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back

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well sure Kate can I stop you for one

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second because we haven't said his full

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name this is Terry Lovelace welcome I

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gave everything out but his name so I'm

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sorry to interrupt you window but this

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is Terry Lovelace and he is right now

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he's in Texas and he has written this

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incident at Devil's Den which is a

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fabulous book and so we'd like to hear

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your story Terry if you'd like to tell

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us in the order in which it happened or

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in whatever order we'll just kind of let

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you run a little bit with this okay okay

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thank you very much yeah I I won't go in

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chronological order because I think

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it'll make more sense well I'll just

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explain I separated from the Air Force

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in 1979

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and I began running there was a jogging

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as it was called was something new and I

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became pretty avid runner I mean that a

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marathon guy but but I would run you

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know try to run a couple miles a day and

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I noticed that every time every single

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time I hit about the two-mile mark in my

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run there's a spot on my right leg just

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above my knee and to the right about the

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size of a half dollar that would go dumb

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and I referred to it as my numb spot and

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I asked some other runners you know you

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guys ever experienced anything I nobody

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I've ever heard of anything like it

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I asked my doctor you know well you know

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what is this is anything to be worried

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about he's absolutely not

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don't worry about it if it's not

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bothering you don't worry about it

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so I didn't and I was cognizant of it

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and it was there for 40 years

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you know 2012

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I took a slight fall down some stairs

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and I thought I'd broken my leg and I

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went to the hospital emergency room to

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have my leg x-rayed the VA hospital I

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might mention and a radiology tech took

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the standard two shots of my leg and

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what kind of perplexed and said well

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we're gonna do two more and she did two

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more and then she asked me she said miss

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Lovelace do you have you had a shrapnel

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wound or been in an automobile accident

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something to account for a piece of

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metal in your leg and I no absolutely

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not

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and she took two more shots was a tote

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there were a total of eight shots taken

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and I asked to see them because I mean

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I'm not a doctor or a radiologist but I

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was an EMT you and I was in the

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military for six years so I'd seen

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x-rays before and it's pretty clear to

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see on an x-ray something that doesn't

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belong if that makes sense when you see

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it it's just doesn't belong we're gonna

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put it up on the website by the way the

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x-ray just putting that in there

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she she put it up on the box and showed

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me and she said I've asked the

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radiologist to come down and get his

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opinion now there were two actually

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there are two anomalies there is the

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metallic piece about the size of a

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fingernail above my knee that has to

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what looks like wires that go straight

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up and low my knee there is a flower

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petal arrangement of material that the

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radiologist said is the same density as

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bone but it couldn't be bone shouldn't

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be bone

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those are cysts are nodules earned are

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nodes those are actually from the side

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view they look they look almost round

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but from a head-on view you can see that

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they're perfectly flat they are flat

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know the x-ray but you started to run

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back in 79 that's right that's right so

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that's probably it was so those things

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were there before 2012 they've been

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there all along

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and 79 was way before like chips and all

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this sort of miniaturization of computer

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parts came along yes pretty much yeah

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Wow so I'm sorry I did to make clear so

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the radiologists in yet and the

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emergency emergency room radiologists

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walked over to my leg and poked my leg

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with his finger and said it'll be right

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here and I said well

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dr. what will be right here he said the

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scar he said you something has breached

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the integrity of your skin for this item

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to be embedded in your leg and there

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must be a scar have you been in an

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accident no no denied ever never being

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hurt and he frowned and asked me to take

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my pants off and look and he looked at

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my leg and for 20 minutes then he sent

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his intern and I might add medical

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people kept trickling into the room

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looking at the SI and and whispering and

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in turn returned with a handheld

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backlight and the radiologist said that

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this will make the scar tissue fluoresce

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killed the overhead lights and then he

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examined my leg again under the

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blacklight and could find no scar

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because there is no scar and I asked him

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I said doctor how often have you seen

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for an object in a human body without a

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corresponding scar and his reply was

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I've been doing this for 23 years and

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never never see answer definitely there

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has to be a scar and if there isn't

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that's really truly amazing point of

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entry yeah he called it a portal of

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entry yeah interesting yes so it didn't

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hit me until I'm it gave me a pair of

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crutches they diagnosed me as having a

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baker's cyst nothing to do with baking

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and just assists that causes pain lasts

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for a couple weeks and then it's gone

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and it's a benign thing mm-hmm but on my

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way to the car with my wife it hit me

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this is that same spot this is that same

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spot that goes numb it's right over this

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and my wife and I kind of looked at one

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another and we had had some experiences

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with UFOs and the like it had become

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after 1977 it had become my own our

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household kind of an on topic we didn't

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discuss it we didn't watch movies about

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UFOs or independence like the movie

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Independence Day which everyone's seen

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but you know every time I watched

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something of that genre it triggers

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nightmares so how about while you're

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watching it you get like anxiety during

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the time sometimes with us there are

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some things that I call triggers and I

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mentioned in my book like mannequin

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heads 87 yes 1987 my wife and I were

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walking around a mall it was

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Christmastime and we rounded a corner

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and there was a shop window and it was

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being set up and there were about three

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or four mannequins that were nude and a

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couple of them just from the waist up I

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saw them and I had a panic attack and I

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just couldn't I had to leave I'm sorry

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we got a leave and I didn't sleep well

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that night I didn't sleep all for a

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couple of nights yeah that was an odd

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experience it was you know a meltdown

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that really yeah there was no reason for

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it it's sort of starting to come

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together though yes I think I get an

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idea where this one's gonna be headed

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so I'm sorry so III really you tell a

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great story and I really shouldn't keep

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interrupting you please don't no hope

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you help you stay on track the wife had

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asked me to to go and see a therapist

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the nightmares that I'd had we had an

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incident a big incident in 1977 when I

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believe that myself and my buddy Tobias

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when we were abducted and we went

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through a lot of stress after that and

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I'll explain that in just a bit but we

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wanted nothing to do with the topic you

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know we just had had our fill of UFOs

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and and anything of a like so you know

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we just oh the other I'm sorry I should

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have mentioned this the same mall two

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weeks later we walked around a corner

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and there was a stand of hardcover books

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on the end cap of a big chain bookstore

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and I don't remember if it was with

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streamers book or community it was the

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book with the alien on the cover

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yeah I walked around the corner and I

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saw that face and it just and I grabbed

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my wife's shoulder and I said I got

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leave and I walked out and she ran after

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me what did they know what's wrong and I

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said my god did you see that

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go back and look at it she didn't she

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went back she came back to me and said

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yeah that's the kind of a spooky looking

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face but so what

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but just like the mannequin heads the

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response was not appropriate the the

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stimuli it was it was way over over the

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top of what it should have been

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and suggests that I see a therapist

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which I did I did for a couple of

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sessions and it was an odd experience

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and that I chose the therapist that was

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close to my office I was busy I didn't

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want to devote a lot of time to doctor's

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appointments and there's a woman named

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Beth her bath like our baths in the book

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and very nice woman

270
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:06,320
very good credentials in SW with Masters

271
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:08,320
in Social Work with a clinical emphasis

272
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:12,010
and she administered some tests

273
00:16:19,510 --> 00:16:15,920
she's ministered and mmpi the Minnesota

274
00:16:21,310 --> 00:16:19,520
multiphasic personality inventory and

275
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:21,320
another test that I wasn't familiar with

276
00:16:26,170 --> 00:16:23,810
and on the second session we discussed

277
00:16:29,830 --> 00:16:26,180
them and she says Terry there's some

278
00:16:31,210 --> 00:16:29,840
cooler things he said well first of all

279
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:31,220
you're not psychotic you're not

280
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:34,130
suffering from any mental illness it's

281
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:36,710
just as your test scores are very

282
00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:39,290
similar to those people who are

283
00:16:46,270 --> 00:16:44,360
suffering from PTSD and she asked have

284
00:16:53,290 --> 00:16:46,280
you had a traumatic experience in your

285
00:16:55,740 --> 00:16:53,300
life and I said well and I knew I didn't

286
00:16:58,590 --> 00:16:55,750
want to talk about the 1977 event

287
00:17:02,350 --> 00:16:58,600
because every time I split let me know

288
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:02,360
yeah and it felt like I could sense

289
00:17:08,170 --> 00:17:04,310
there was an audible change in her voice

290
00:17:14,260 --> 00:17:08,180
and the room felt smaller and I felt

291
00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:14,270
uncomfortable and I said Beth I think I

292
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:16,550
need to go and I'll reschedule with you

293
00:17:25,780 --> 00:17:19,600
oh yeah I think we both coming back and

294
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:25,790
I shook her hand and ran to the car and

295
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:28,810
I called that chapter a close call

296
00:17:34,770 --> 00:17:31,520
that's the way it felt it felt like I

297
00:17:38,260 --> 00:17:34,780
had a close call but but from what I

298
00:17:40,330 --> 00:17:38,270
don't know I think I think that these

299
00:17:41,070 --> 00:17:40,340
things whatever they are they come and

300
00:17:45,370 --> 00:17:41,080
take us

301
00:17:52,690 --> 00:17:47,890
well obviously you got something in you

302
00:17:54,940 --> 00:17:52,700
you know yeah well your close call too

303
00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:54,950
is maybe you just really didn't want to

304
00:17:59,529 --> 00:17:57,650
face up to the fact that something had

305
00:18:02,320 --> 00:17:59,539
happened to you that you really didn't

306
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:02,330
want to know about because sometimes

307
00:18:10,029 --> 00:18:05,210
knowing about is like reliving it it's

308
00:18:13,450 --> 00:18:10,039
terribly scary yes I did the initial

309
00:18:15,940 --> 00:18:13,460
event I can't imagine the sheer terror I

310
00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:15,950
really don't want to imagine it we know

311
00:18:25,330 --> 00:18:19,030
the sheer terror okay we know they share

312
00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:25,340
yes yes yes it's you know everyone

313
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:27,289
thinks that oh well you're just afraid

314
00:18:38,380 --> 00:18:35,330
it goes so far beyond that fear it is

315
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:38,390
beyond fear and I've I've kind I don't

316
00:18:45,940 --> 00:18:41,360
use litmus tests with people but I do

317
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:45,950
know this that anybody who is has really

318
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:50,090
had a one-on-one experience has this

319
00:18:58,060 --> 00:18:55,610
type of fear that is so it's not like

320
00:19:00,580 --> 00:18:58,070
being afraid of the dark or being afraid

321
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:00,590
of butterflies or being afraid of

322
00:19:07,570 --> 00:19:02,210
spiders or something

323
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:07,580
this is earthy gut-wrenching animal you

324
00:19:14,529 --> 00:19:10,610
know primitive brain fear it comes

325
00:19:18,430 --> 00:19:14,539
somewhere I think from the very from the

326
00:19:22,380 --> 00:19:18,440
lizard brain or a very old part of the

327
00:19:25,690 --> 00:19:22,390
brain that is absolutely debilitating

328
00:19:29,169 --> 00:19:25,700
forgive my rudeness crapping your pants

329
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:29,179
fear but you are spot-on

330
00:19:36,010 --> 00:19:32,240
you are so spot-on I used almost those

331
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:36,020
exact same words in my book I said this

332
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:38,210
is a primitive kind of fear that comes

333
00:19:44,020 --> 00:19:41,090
it's been the brain stem and I said I

334
00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:44,030
have no doubt that this fear must have

335
00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:48,289
been what our ancestors now maybe 10,000

336
00:19:54,370 --> 00:19:50,900
generations ago what they must have felt

337
00:19:58,450 --> 00:19:54,380
after the Sun went down and then and

338
00:20:04,000 --> 00:19:58,460
then we were the prey all the sudden

339
00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:04,010
yes I had two experiences as a child too

340
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:06,320
that I should mention because I think

341
00:20:12,510 --> 00:20:08,810
that they helped to bring this into

342
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:12,520
focus and give it a little more context

343
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:15,410
especially an in regard to discussion of

344
00:20:24,610 --> 00:20:22,730
fear when I was eight I had recurrent

345
00:20:27,250 --> 00:20:24,620
nightmares and in the end these

346
00:20:32,860 --> 00:20:27,260
nightmares were always the same there

347
00:20:36,580 --> 00:20:32,870
were four monkeys I'm eight eight years

348
00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:36,590
old and these four little monkeys are

349
00:20:42,940 --> 00:20:39,470
wearing masks the mask

350
00:20:47,230 --> 00:20:42,950
all white with yellow eyes and

351
00:20:51,250 --> 00:20:47,240
exaggerated smiles they're all identical

352
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:51,260
and they would appear in my room and

353
00:20:57,460 --> 00:20:55,280
approach my bed in a sin of circle and

354
00:21:02,290 --> 00:20:57,470
get closer to me and the one closest to

355
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:02,300
my hate to my head would say come with

356
00:21:09,910 --> 00:21:05,330
us Terry come with us and we'll play and

357
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:09,920
we'll bring you back anything my mind

358
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:13,360
side to this day I can see a monkey paw

359
00:21:23,230 --> 00:21:18,050
being held out to me and then I can see

360
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:23,240
a hand or long fingers it's not a human

361
00:21:36,790 --> 00:21:31,610
hand Wow reaching out to me that's so

362
00:21:39,460 --> 00:21:36,800
classic and I think I went with them I

363
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:39,470
think I even said in my book when I

364
00:21:45,220 --> 00:21:43,370
first saw the monkeys they were and this

365
00:21:47,260 --> 00:21:45,230
was this was a recurring event when I

366
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:47,270
first see them they're almost comical in

367
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:50,810
a way and I think they're they disguise

368
00:22:01,960 --> 00:21:55,250
they take on a guys that to look benign

369
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:01,970
to look friendly and I had a memory of

370
00:22:12,730 --> 00:22:05,840
being taken once and playing with other

371
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:12,740
children eight years old 19

372
00:22:21,799 --> 00:22:18,559
63i I'm having these nightmares and

373
00:22:23,889 --> 00:22:21,809
coincidentally or concurrently at the

374
00:22:28,220 --> 00:22:23,899
same time I'm having these nightmares

375
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:28,230
I'm in my backyard and I'm shooting a

376
00:22:32,330 --> 00:22:30,450
bow and arrow and I'm loading an arrow

377
00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:32,340
into the notch of the bowstring and I'm

378
00:22:40,130 --> 00:22:36,840
looking down and I see this shadow I see

379
00:22:43,930 --> 00:22:40,140
this big elliptical shadow move from in

380
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:43,940
back of me and instinctively I looked up

381
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:48,690
expecting to see a cloud and home or the

382
00:22:55,269 --> 00:22:51,049
top of me about 50 feet in the air is

383
00:22:57,980 --> 00:22:55,279
this absolutely gorgeous beautiful

384
00:23:02,210 --> 00:22:57,990
saucer Wow

385
00:23:05,330 --> 00:23:02,220
I was awestruck by this thing and I

386
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:05,340
remember I stood there and I thought I

387
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:10,110
was just amazed and I remember there was

388
00:23:16,430 --> 00:23:14,730
a odd audible change in that the

389
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:16,440
neighborhood was normally alive with

390
00:23:20,269 --> 00:23:17,970
this was in the middle of a Saturday

391
00:23:23,659 --> 00:23:20,279
afternoon in a neighborhood not only

392
00:23:26,029 --> 00:23:23,669
alive with children and cars and I could

393
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:26,039
hear my mother's soap operas or TV

394
00:23:31,549 --> 00:23:28,559
blaring from the house but it was gone

395
00:23:35,269 --> 00:23:31,559
it was like silent the ADO's effect

396
00:23:37,389 --> 00:23:35,279
that's there's a name for that the Oz

397
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:37,399
effect I believe it was coined by the

398
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:43,440
British UFO investigator named Jenny

399
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:54,210
Randall's was that smell just like right

400
00:24:02,840 --> 00:23:59,840
after a thunderstorm my arms stood up

401
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:02,850
and the crazy thing is the lawn had just

402
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:05,760
been loaded day or two before and I had

403
00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:08,850
a compulsion to lie down on my back and

404
00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:10,110
look up at this thing

405
00:24:20,570 --> 00:24:17,720
1963 staring up at this silver disc

406
00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:20,580
directly over my head

407
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:23,220
that was just an incredible thing to see

408
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:28,970
after I had watched it for a moment and

409
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:30,930
again I had no perception of time I

410
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:33,930
don't know if I watched it for you know

411
00:24:41,630 --> 00:24:37,380
three minutes or 30 minutes it's it's

412
00:24:44,540 --> 00:24:41,640
odd I don't know but I watched it wobble

413
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:44,550
in the breeze a bit and then it listed

414
00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:49,290
kind of to one side and it shot off and

415
00:24:54,650 --> 00:24:52,470
it was gone literally in the blink of an

416
00:25:00,520 --> 00:24:54,660
eye I you if you blinked you would have

417
00:25:03,050 --> 00:25:00,530
missed it but I saw so I go and I

418
00:25:08,180 --> 00:25:03,060
screamed at that point I I jumped to my

419
00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:08,190
feet and I'm screaming mom mom and of

420
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:10,440
course my mother or mother thinks I've

421
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:12,570
taken my bow and arrow and shot the

422
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:14,970
neighbor or something you know and she

423
00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:18,090
comes running out looks me over and does

424
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:19,710
a quick assessment and doesn't see any

425
00:25:26,180 --> 00:25:24,000
blood and drags me in the house and she

426
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:26,190
tells me you've got to stop screaming

427
00:25:32,410 --> 00:25:30,030
I don't remember screaming but she told

428
00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:32,420
me later that I did that I screamed

429
00:25:38,450 --> 00:25:34,470
non-stop until we got in the house

430
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:38,460
because my throat was sore was hoarse

431
00:25:43,790 --> 00:25:40,290
from screaming Wow

432
00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:43,800
and I was staring at this spot she told

433
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:45,480
me you were staring at that spot in the

434
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:49,530
sky and she said I had to drag you in by

435
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:50,510
the arm

436
00:25:57,890 --> 00:25:55,770
so 1963 my mom says what what happened

437
00:26:00,770 --> 00:25:57,900
what happened I my mom did you see it it

438
00:26:03,770 --> 00:26:00,780
was so cool it was a flying saucer just

439
00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:03,780
like the ones you've seen on TV and

440
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:06,270
she's like well oh wait a minute doctor

441
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:08,730
I don't know what you saw but you did

442
00:26:14,090 --> 00:26:12,450
not see a flying saucer and I said yes I

443
00:26:16,340 --> 00:26:14,100
did I know what I saw

444
00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:16,350
no you didn't it was something else I

445
00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:18,510
promise you you can't go around and tell

446
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:21,900
people you saw a UFO or a fly a flying

447
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:23,130
saucer you can't go around telling

448
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:24,690
people you're seeing flying saucers

449
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:25,890
they'll think you're crazy

450
00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:27,120
they'll think there's something wrong

451
00:26:32,210 --> 00:26:29,070
with with you or something wrong with us

452
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:32,220
don't you know she said it had to be a

453
00:26:37,980 --> 00:26:35,250
jet it had to be a something secret from

454
00:26:41,010 --> 00:26:37,990
the Army but

455
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:41,020
was insistent you know that's not true I

456
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:42,880
know what I saw mom you weren't there

457
00:26:48,750 --> 00:26:45,010
yeah how much easier life would have

458
00:26:52,290 --> 00:26:48,760
been had she been there but yeah my

459
00:26:55,169 --> 00:26:52,300
folks wouldn't believe me and that is

460
00:26:57,450 --> 00:26:55,179
with that point is when the nightmares

461
00:27:04,140 --> 00:26:57,460
took a darker turn oh my

462
00:27:06,150 --> 00:27:04,150
and that's when I had the recall of what

463
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:06,160
I call in the book the big bug like

464
00:27:12,299 --> 00:27:10,210
things and these things were about six

465
00:27:14,510 --> 00:27:12,309
feet tall of course when I was eight

466
00:27:16,590 --> 00:27:14,520
they looked probably nine feet tall and

467
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:16,600
they look like big bugs

468
00:27:24,299 --> 00:27:19,570
they look like praying mantises yes this

469
00:27:27,690 --> 00:27:24,309
is this is a well known variant of a of

470
00:27:30,169 --> 00:27:27,700
an alien it's a it's one of the types of

471
00:27:35,820 --> 00:27:30,179
aliens that people do apparently see

472
00:27:38,910 --> 00:27:35,830
well what amazed me was the the hands if

473
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:38,920
you want to call them hands were

474
00:27:43,230 --> 00:27:40,690
manipulating these stainless steel

475
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:43,240
objects with you know with a lot with

476
00:27:51,570 --> 00:27:46,720
dexterity they were like he was turning

477
00:27:56,790 --> 00:27:51,580
them around and I was kind of fascinated

478
00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:56,800
by that I was subdued I think I was I

479
00:28:02,400 --> 00:27:58,690
was creating one point there were a

480
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:02,410
couple of instances and at one point I

481
00:28:09,450 --> 00:28:04,870
recall he was doing something to my

482
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:09,460
lower spine oh dear and I was screaming

483
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:15,730
and I think I annoyed him and the only

484
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:17,710
time he ever communicated was I always

485
00:28:21,540 --> 00:28:19,510
pleaded with these things why are you

486
00:28:22,860 --> 00:28:21,550
doing this leave me alone let me go back

487
00:28:26,850 --> 00:28:22,870
home I'm scared

488
00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:26,860
didn't completely ignore my pleas this

489
00:28:31,740 --> 00:28:28,630
time for whatever reason like I said I

490
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:31,750
think I think I got on on its nerves

491
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:36,090
I got the message in my head you know

492
00:28:41,310 --> 00:28:39,010
why are you doing this why why are you

493
00:28:43,260 --> 00:28:41,320
screaming like this you know you've been

494
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:43,270
here before we're gonna take you back

495
00:28:48,210 --> 00:28:45,010
home everything's gonna be okay you

496
00:28:51,810 --> 00:28:48,220
won't remember this and it sounds odd

497
00:28:54,450 --> 00:28:51,820
but I got a vibe from this thing like he

498
00:28:58,230 --> 00:28:54,460
just doing my job man if that makes

499
00:29:03,300 --> 00:28:58,240
sense yeah well yeah that's I guess they

500
00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:03,310
sort of see us like we see tagging you

501
00:29:08,970 --> 00:29:05,710
know birds in the sky like to see the

502
00:29:11,310 --> 00:29:08,980
the flight paths of birds scientists

503
00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:11,320
will tag them and I think that's how

504
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:14,800
they view us like like wild animals that

505
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:17,370
they can do what the heck they want with

506
00:29:27,180 --> 00:29:22,810
yes I think I refer to myself as that

507
00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:27,190
you know I in 2012 it hit me that you

508
00:29:30,450 --> 00:29:29,080
know these things this thing in my leg

509
00:29:32,430 --> 00:29:30,460
had to get there some way that means

510
00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:32,440
these things had to put their hands on

511
00:29:36,860 --> 00:29:35,350
me and that's terror that makes my skin

512
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:36,870
crawl

513
00:29:41,940 --> 00:29:39,760
absolutely at night I think about that

514
00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:41,950
sometimes and then I usually end up

515
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:47,110
being awake all night because there's

516
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:49,120
this well it's just a terrifying ordeal

517
00:29:55,740 --> 00:29:52,480
but I learned pretty quickly that no one

518
00:29:58,020 --> 00:29:55,750
no one would believe me and I mean I was

519
00:30:00,930 --> 00:29:58,030
a I was a very straight kid I was a good

520
00:30:04,260 --> 00:30:00,940
student I was on a liar I didn't make up

521
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:04,270
stories I could not understand why

522
00:30:12,350 --> 00:30:08,410
adults would not listen to me I they

523
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:12,360
were adamant it was not a flying saucer

524
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:14,950
they went as far as to take me to him to

525
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:17,610
a medical doctor to the family doctor

526
00:30:25,250 --> 00:30:21,970
had me checked over you know and the

527
00:30:29,370 --> 00:30:25,260
doctor asked my dad to leave the room

528
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:29,380
asked me son tell me what you saw

529
00:30:35,130 --> 00:30:32,110
nice well it was a jet I think it was a

530
00:30:39,090 --> 00:30:35,140
check and he crosses his arms and he's

531
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:39,100
like well no why would Jets if you

532
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:42,730
nightmares about flying saucers and at

533
00:30:46,170 --> 00:30:44,020
that time I wasn't having nightmares

534
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:46,180
about flying saucers I was having

535
00:30:52,770 --> 00:30:47,890
nightmares about these big bug things

536
00:30:55,230 --> 00:30:52,780
right hurting me and he says you can

537
00:30:58,830 --> 00:30:55,240
trust me I'm your doctor I want you to

538
00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,840
be well so against my better judgment I

539
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:01,360
told him the truth I said I saw the

540
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:04,810
silver discs in the sky it was beautiful

541
00:31:08,030 --> 00:31:05,610
I told

542
00:31:10,450 --> 00:31:08,040
the whole story and he and I never

543
00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:10,460
tipped his hand he just kind of nodded

544
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:13,110
called my dad back in the room and said

545
00:31:19,370 --> 00:31:15,510
what we have here is an overactive

546
00:31:21,610 --> 00:31:19,380
imagination compounded by Jonny Quest

547
00:31:25,789 --> 00:31:21,620
cartoons oh dear

548
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:25,799
and what kind of TV is he watching and

549
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:27,120
they had a conversation like I wasn't

550
00:31:32,180 --> 00:31:29,370
even in the room you know and and they

551
00:31:34,430 --> 00:31:32,190
took me home my folks my folks idea of

552
00:31:38,390 --> 00:31:34,440
healthier television was Three Stooges

553
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:38,400
reruns oh my that lasted about three

554
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:40,200
weeks and there's nothing that was on

555
00:31:47,150 --> 00:31:44,250
everyone's last nerve but I learned from

556
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:47,160
that you know you can't tell people cuz

557
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:48,510
they won't believe you

558
00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:52,049
and it just when I was 11 just a few

559
00:31:57,980 --> 00:31:54,840
years later I had a second instant a

560
00:32:03,409 --> 00:31:57,990
second sighting and this one was a lot

561
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:03,419
more dramatic and I was it was bitterly

562
00:32:10,610 --> 00:32:07,919
cold January night I went to bed normal

563
00:32:14,919 --> 00:32:10,620
routine evening in every way didn't

564
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:14,929
watch anything spooky on TV and I recall

565
00:32:22,299 --> 00:32:18,330
waking up and when I opened my eyes I

566
00:32:26,990 --> 00:32:22,309
was sitting bolt upright in my bed and

567
00:32:29,330 --> 00:32:27,000
there was a low mechanical hum I call it

568
00:32:32,510 --> 00:32:29,340
mechanical like if you've ever been next

569
00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:32,520
to it a diesel locomotive or some big

570
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:34,980
piece of machinery a turbine for

571
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:38,130
instance yeah yeah and it wasn't so much

572
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:43,710
loud as it sounded powerful and my room

573
00:32:50,390 --> 00:32:46,559
is lit up with yellow white and orange

574
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:50,400
lights flashing and there you know more

575
00:32:57,380 --> 00:32:53,370
brilliant than any sunrise they are just

576
00:32:59,900 --> 00:32:57,390
my room is lit up and the hum has the

577
00:33:01,820 --> 00:32:59,910
Bennis five rating and I had a little

578
00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:01,830
desk next to my bed I had these little

579
00:33:07,340 --> 00:33:05,580
model airplanes on the desk and I saw

580
00:33:12,260 --> 00:33:07,350
one of them vibrated off the edge and

581
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:12,270
fell onto the floor well I got out of

582
00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:17,850
bed and I was interested but thought to

583
00:33:24,590 --> 00:33:19,470
cry out to my mom never cry

584
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:24,600
my mind but I was almost apathetic and I

585
00:33:30,860 --> 00:33:28,320
went and I was just curious and I opened

586
00:33:33,740 --> 00:33:30,870
the blind and here is a here is a flying

587
00:33:35,899 --> 00:33:33,750
saucer and it's the top side of the one

588
00:33:39,950 --> 00:33:35,909
that I saw before or one like it a

589
00:33:42,350 --> 00:33:39,960
circular disc it's a circular disc with

590
00:33:44,330 --> 00:33:42,360
a dome on top and the dome is where the

591
00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:44,340
lights are coming from and the lights

592
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:46,440
are so intense i can't look into the

593
00:33:53,299 --> 00:33:49,679
dome but i can see that underneath it

594
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:53,309
there is steam or some type that looks

595
00:34:00,409 --> 00:33:57,450
like heavy fog and i would recall I took

596
00:34:03,070 --> 00:34:00,419
the drape drapery and I tucked it into

597
00:34:06,649 --> 00:34:03,080
the venetian blind so I could look at

598
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:06,659
hands-free and I looked at it for a

599
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:09,090
minute and then I thought well that's

600
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:11,609
pretty cool I'm gonna go back to bed

601
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:15,050
and it turned around and was back to bed

602
00:34:20,419 --> 00:34:17,970
okay it was the oddest thing It was as

603
00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:20,429
if I laid down open my eyes and it was

604
00:34:24,609 --> 00:34:21,780
daytime Wow

605
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:24,619
and if not not an instant had passed

606
00:34:31,220 --> 00:34:29,490
Eadie I got out of bed and I almost

607
00:34:32,750 --> 00:34:31,230
stepped on this little airplane and I

608
00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:32,760
thought oh my god I could have stepped

609
00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:34,470
on I could have broke that and then my

610
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:37,710
memory hit me oh my god this happened

611
00:34:42,109 --> 00:34:40,169
last night and I immediately turned my

612
00:34:44,839 --> 00:34:42,119
head to look at the window and the

613
00:34:47,690 --> 00:34:44,849
venetian blinds had the draperies stuck

614
00:34:50,510 --> 00:34:47,700
into them and then i knew this was no

615
00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:50,520
dream it hasn't for real

616
00:34:55,129 --> 00:34:53,550
absolutely this it happened so at

617
00:34:57,079 --> 00:34:55,139
breakfast I asked everybody did

618
00:35:00,290 --> 00:34:57,089
everybody see those lights last night

619
00:35:01,540 --> 00:35:00,300
maybe a fire engine or something nope

620
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:01,550
didn't see a thing

621
00:35:08,089 --> 00:35:05,730
you know and I certainly wasn't going on

622
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:08,099
I certainly wasn't going to tell anyone

623
00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:11,280
cuz I knew they wouldn't believe me so I

624
00:35:16,339 --> 00:35:14,070
kept that to myself so you have already

625
00:35:21,410 --> 00:35:16,349
at the age of 11 been a multiple

626
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:21,420
experience or we would say can we move

627
00:35:26,359 --> 00:35:24,240
ahead to your time in the airforce only

628
00:35:29,570 --> 00:35:26,369
because we do have a certain limit on

629
00:35:31,940 --> 00:35:29,580
our time it's not ending yet but we need

630
00:35:33,140 --> 00:35:31,950
to move ahead to that point so we can

631
00:35:36,730 --> 00:35:33,150
get to the

632
00:35:40,539 --> 00:35:36,740
the very very serious incidence of

633
00:35:43,339 --> 00:35:40,549
perhaps first where you saw the

634
00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:43,349
something over the missile base and then

635
00:35:53,210 --> 00:35:49,529
the camping trip yes I can I can move

636
00:35:55,970 --> 00:35:53,220
this right along sorry about that way I

637
00:35:59,779 --> 00:35:55,980
wish we had you no no no no that makes

638
00:36:01,760 --> 00:35:59,789
perfect sense I understand I the years

639
00:36:03,980 --> 00:36:01,770
between seeing the Flying Saucer when I

640
00:36:05,690 --> 00:36:03,990
was 11 and when I was 18 those years

641
00:36:08,809 --> 00:36:05,700
there we were absolutely normal I had

642
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:08,819
nothing nothing out of the ordinary

643
00:36:14,059 --> 00:36:11,130
happen whatsoever I joined the United

644
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:14,069
States Air Force I they trained me as a

645
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:17,130
medic I got certified as an EMT

646
00:36:24,140 --> 00:36:21,930
paramedic and I drove an ambulance I was

647
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:24,150
with this partnered with this guy I call

648
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:26,880
him in the book Tobias and we were

649
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:27,510
friends

650
00:36:34,220 --> 00:36:32,640
worked together we were the only two

651
00:36:36,650 --> 00:36:34,230
guys amenable to work in the night shift

652
00:36:40,220 --> 00:36:36,660
from you know 11:00 p.m. at night though

653
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:40,230
I morning I did it because I was taking

654
00:36:48,740 --> 00:36:43,680
evening classes and on base and that was

655
00:36:50,660 --> 00:36:48,750
fit my schedule and Tobias was a amateur

656
00:36:55,220 --> 00:36:50,670
astronomer he liked to watch the night

657
00:37:00,529 --> 00:36:55,230
sky so we were it for the night shift

658
00:37:04,789 --> 00:37:00,539
our phone rings this is 1975 again it's

659
00:37:07,370 --> 00:37:04,799
cold well I call the crash phone rings

660
00:37:08,769 --> 00:37:07,380
the crash phone is a red phone any time

661
00:37:11,410 --> 00:37:08,779
it raised it there's an aircraft

662
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:11,420
emergency there's something wrong and

663
00:37:18,740 --> 00:37:14,010
this is at Whiteman Air Force Base and

664
00:37:23,329 --> 00:37:18,750
in 1975 they had dozens of missile silos

665
00:37:27,289 --> 00:37:23,339
spread out over Beslan area of western

666
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:27,299
Missouri and each one of these silos was

667
00:37:36,289 --> 00:37:30,930
a tube in the ground that held a 60-foot

668
00:37:38,510 --> 00:37:36,299
long Minutemen to ICBM missile and I

669
00:37:39,710 --> 00:37:38,520
think I sent you a photograph if you

670
00:37:43,010 --> 00:37:39,720
look at the photograph you'll see

671
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:43,020
there's a blue dome mm-hmm that blue

672
00:37:46,910 --> 00:37:45,690
dome is what caps that launch tube I'm

673
00:37:49,910 --> 00:37:46,920
gonna try to put these up

674
00:37:52,030 --> 00:37:49,920
on the websites or listeners can see the

675
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:52,040
pictures

676
00:37:58,220 --> 00:37:56,250
go ahead Terry okay and there's a

677
00:38:00,770 --> 00:37:58,230
trapezoid looking little building

678
00:38:02,539 --> 00:38:00,780
they're made out of concrete it's an

679
00:38:04,460 --> 00:38:02,549
interesting when you walk in the door

680
00:38:08,420 --> 00:38:04,470
there's an elevator there with one

681
00:38:10,180 --> 00:38:08,430
button down and you take that into it it

682
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:10,190
will take you down to the bottom of the

683
00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:12,480
missile so that missile maintenance

684
00:38:20,329 --> 00:38:16,710
people can work on it and we got a call

685
00:38:23,210 --> 00:38:20,339
that a guy missile technician had fallen

686
00:38:26,750 --> 00:38:23,220
and hurt himself and needed maybe an

687
00:38:29,930 --> 00:38:26,760
assistance so Toby and I hopped in our

688
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:29,940
ambulance and we drove to the location

689
00:38:38,990 --> 00:38:32,730
and referred to as kilo five

690
00:38:42,010 --> 00:38:39,000
we drove as fast as I could make the you

691
00:38:48,289 --> 00:38:42,020
know eight cylinder General Motors

692
00:38:50,990 --> 00:38:48,299
ambulance go and we were about a mile

693
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:51,000
away and I could see this orange glow

694
00:38:57,620 --> 00:38:54,720
and a horizon hmm and what it was was it

695
00:39:00,410 --> 00:38:57,630
was there were a dozen or so security

696
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:00,420
police vehicles there and they had their

697
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:03,210
overhead lights which were red and they

698
00:39:07,940 --> 00:39:05,359
were all blinking out of sync and

699
00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:07,950
because it was so cold there was this

700
00:39:13,819 --> 00:39:10,609
big massive cloud of exhaust fumes

701
00:39:18,289 --> 00:39:13,829
illuminated by these lights it just made

702
00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:18,299
for an eerie glow and I I got to the

703
00:39:23,839 --> 00:39:22,049
thing we got there and I looked for

704
00:39:25,130 --> 00:39:23,849
who's in charge I see his lieutenants

705
00:39:27,829 --> 00:39:25,140
Tanner pardon me to captain

706
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:27,839
standing in the roadway and I rolled

707
00:39:33,740 --> 00:39:29,280
down my window and said where's our

708
00:39:35,420 --> 00:39:33,750
patient sir and he says park your

709
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:35,430
vehicle park the ambulance over there

710
00:39:41,329 --> 00:39:38,240
stay off the radio stay in your vehicle

711
00:39:44,660 --> 00:39:41,339
nobody goes in nobody comes out unless I

712
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:44,670
say so I'm like okay I guess he's not

713
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:47,520
taking questions and you know Toby and I

714
00:39:53,809 --> 00:39:52,079
pulled over and or inside of our windows

715
00:39:56,750 --> 00:39:53,819
are fogged up pretty bad because of the

716
00:39:59,180 --> 00:39:56,760
temperature mm-hmm so Toby says I'm

717
00:40:00,620 --> 00:39:59,190
gonna find out what's going on man Tony

718
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:00,630
if

719
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:03,090
of this cap disorder hops out of the

720
00:40:09,830 --> 00:40:06,480
ambulance goes out it's gone well three

721
00:40:12,260 --> 00:40:09,840
or four minutes comes back Yanks my door

722
00:40:15,530 --> 00:40:12,270
or the passengers world and grabs me by

723
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:15,540
the arm and starts pulling me and he

724
00:40:19,820 --> 00:40:18,330
says man you have got to see this man

725
00:40:23,630 --> 00:40:19,830
you ain't never seen nothing like this

726
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:23,640
you had got to see this and he's pulling

727
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:25,410
me and I grab my parka

728
00:40:33,590 --> 00:40:30,050
and I don't know what has him so upset

729
00:40:35,950 --> 00:40:33,600
and I throwing my Park on and here's

730
00:40:40,540 --> 00:40:35,960
everybody looking up and I look up and

731
00:40:46,190 --> 00:40:40,550
over that blue dome 50 feet or so is a

732
00:40:50,210 --> 00:40:46,200
black diamond shaped thing the size of a

733
00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:50,220
full full-size cargo van now when you

734
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:54,270
when I first looked at it I I looked for

735
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,610
wires or something because it just

736
00:41:00,770 --> 00:40:58,560
doesn't register it doesn't make sense

737
00:41:03,350 --> 00:41:00,780
to see this thing just hang there in

738
00:41:06,290 --> 00:41:03,360
midair right right there were no

739
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:06,300
propellers no exhaust no no anything and

740
00:41:13,820 --> 00:41:09,450
it's a four-sided diamond and it's matte

741
00:41:16,430 --> 00:41:13,830
black yes it's non reflective it's lit

742
00:41:18,290 --> 00:41:16,440
up by the security police guys they have

743
00:41:20,540 --> 00:41:18,300
searchlights on their cars and trucks

744
00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:20,550
they had it lit up it was a

745
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:23,250
non-reflective no markings of any kind

746
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:28,890
on it and the captain walked over to me

747
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:31,770
Eddie you know I had to smile on his

748
00:41:35,930 --> 00:41:34,050
face then we looked at each other if I

749
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:35,940
didn't meet her you see what I'm seeing

750
00:41:42,740 --> 00:41:38,850
I was they kind of put rank aside for a

751
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:42,750
moment and we just felt something was

752
00:41:47,330 --> 00:41:44,130
going to happen and of course something

753
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:47,340
did happen and that is it shot off it

754
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:49,410
shot off just like the flying saucer I

755
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:53,010
saw shoot on in a millisecond it was

756
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:53,610
gone

757
00:42:00,890 --> 00:41:58,800
it had to go incredible speed we picked

758
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:00,900
up our patient a guy fell falling had

759
00:42:05,390 --> 00:42:02,850
broken his ankle and we made our way

760
00:42:07,820 --> 00:42:05,400
back to the hospital and dropped our

761
00:42:09,650 --> 00:42:07,830
patient off the doctor and a nurse

762
00:42:11,940 --> 00:42:09,660
restocked our ambulance and then their

763
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:11,950
commanding officer is there and it's

764
00:42:16,620 --> 00:42:14,770
I need to see you boys yes sir

765
00:42:18,420 --> 00:42:16,630
and we really did he was a really good

766
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:18,430
guy our commanding officer was a good

767
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:22,960
and we went into his office hey sorry

768
00:42:27,210 --> 00:42:24,250
boys what do you see

769
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:27,220
tell me we saw it there and we told him

770
00:42:31,859 --> 00:42:29,530
and he asked me says did you write any

771
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:31,869
of this new report doesn't of course not

772
00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:34,810
you know yes to keep he has to see my

773
00:42:39,780 --> 00:42:37,420
report I gave it to him I thought was

774
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:39,790
God he took a felt-tip magic marker and

775
00:42:46,859 --> 00:42:45,520
he redacted all of the times like except

776
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:46,869
for the time of departure

777
00:42:53,070 --> 00:42:50,770
I left at o2 18 hours took two to close

778
00:42:55,859 --> 00:42:53,080
after 2 o'clock in the morning he left

779
00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:55,869
that time on but all of the other times

780
00:43:01,109 --> 00:42:57,970
like our time of arrival at the scene

781
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:01,119
and all that he redacted that out took

782
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:03,610
the original over to a copy machine made

783
00:43:10,350 --> 00:43:06,910
two copies kept the original and a copy

784
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:10,360
and gave me back a copy with the

785
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:12,490
redaction and said this is what I want

786
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:15,010
you to turn in and I wasn't asking

787
00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:18,010
questions right yes sir and then he says

788
00:43:22,740 --> 00:43:19,990
all right boys do me a favor show me

789
00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:22,750
what you saw can you draw it sure I

790
00:43:28,859 --> 00:43:26,380
think we can try but I I'm not a real

791
00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:28,869
good artist told he was much better at

792
00:43:33,060 --> 00:43:30,609
this than I was and he had the presence

793
00:43:35,820 --> 00:43:33,070
of mind he actually counted the facets

794
00:43:38,730 --> 00:43:35,830
on the side of the thing Wow

795
00:43:42,060 --> 00:43:38,740
and could do he was a really sharp kid

796
00:43:43,770 --> 00:43:42,070
he and he drew a much better image of it

797
00:43:47,090 --> 00:43:43,780
and I could draw and it's hard to put

798
00:43:52,620 --> 00:43:47,100
portray this 3-dimensional object in

799
00:43:55,380 --> 00:43:52,630
three dimensions sure and he took her

800
00:43:57,300 --> 00:43:55,390
drawings and looked at him for a minute

801
00:43:59,070 --> 00:43:57,310
slid him in his desk drawer and said

802
00:44:02,700 --> 00:43:59,080
boys what you saw it there was a

803
00:44:05,550 --> 00:44:02,710
prototype helicopter you can't talk

804
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:05,560
about it it's a secret you understand I

805
00:44:10,130 --> 00:44:07,330
know you I know you should I know you're

806
00:44:13,260 --> 00:44:10,140
smart guys you know don't screw this up

807
00:44:17,790 --> 00:44:13,270
there's no word about no talking I mean

808
00:44:19,980 --> 00:44:17,800
no talking and we yes sir you know and

809
00:44:25,410 --> 00:44:19,990
we couldn't wait to get home to tell our

810
00:44:28,260 --> 00:44:25,420
wives and you do know that

811
00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:28,270
there is there are two gentlemen one of

812
00:44:33,569 --> 00:44:30,460
whom is named Robert Hastings and the

813
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:33,579
other of whom is named Robert Salas and

814
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:39,040
they both study things that have

815
00:44:46,049 --> 00:44:42,130
happened over other missile silos across

816
00:44:48,750 --> 00:44:46,059
the country I knew on the UFO culture

817
00:44:50,190 --> 00:44:48,760
okay but I do know the name from my

818
00:44:52,109 --> 00:44:50,200
reading I'm trying to catch up I'm

819
00:44:54,750 --> 00:44:52,119
trying to get up to speed I did cross

820
00:44:57,210 --> 00:44:54,760
the name Robert Salas who was a launch

821
00:45:00,569 --> 00:44:57,220
control officer yes and and Robert

822
00:45:05,339 --> 00:45:00,579
Hastings had a father in the military

823
00:45:07,289 --> 00:45:05,349
and he has done a movie about that and

824
00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:07,299
written some books and he has been on

825
00:45:13,380 --> 00:45:10,329
shattered reality podcast so you might

826
00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:13,390
want to check out his accounts and I'm

827
00:45:20,849 --> 00:45:15,910
sure he would be extremely interested to

828
00:45:23,730 --> 00:45:20,859
hear from you I'm I'm friends with Bob

829
00:45:26,460 --> 00:45:23,740
Salas on Facebook but Robert Hastings

830
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:26,470
has in fact been on the show and he did

831
00:45:31,380 --> 00:45:29,290
put out a call on the show on our show

832
00:45:33,380 --> 00:45:31,390
as well as other shows that if there are

833
00:45:37,319 --> 00:45:33,390
military men out there who have had

834
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:37,329
incidents with the missile silos like

835
00:45:42,420 --> 00:45:40,450
they did up at Minot Air Force Base and

836
00:45:46,859 --> 00:45:42,430
the other one that starts with an M

837
00:45:50,099 --> 00:45:46,869
offhand not in my brain but those are

838
00:45:54,089 --> 00:45:50,109
the two guys to talk to about that part

839
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:54,099
of the incident so Robert Hastings and

840
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:57,280
Robert Salas I'll get back to you with

841
00:46:03,270 --> 00:46:00,400
those names after the show but as we are

842
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:03,280
we are running down on time I want you

843
00:46:08,370 --> 00:46:06,160
to and I hate doing oh yeah

844
00:46:12,089 --> 00:46:08,380
jump forward to the idea that you and

845
00:46:14,730 --> 00:46:12,099
Toby decided to go on a camping trip yes

846
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:14,740
at some time after that maybe just an

847
00:46:18,690 --> 00:46:17,049
idea of what kind of timeframe you'd

848
00:46:22,140 --> 00:46:18,700
like me to keep this in it and I can

849
00:46:26,250 --> 00:46:22,150
pace myself there okay I think we have

850
00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:26,260
about 15 more minutes okay okay that's

851
00:46:32,299 --> 00:46:29,200
perfect I think I can do that okay they

852
00:46:35,819 --> 00:46:32,309
cover the really the important parts and

853
00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:35,829
if I just want to mention this now we

854
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:37,900
have here let's sort of like to let

855
00:46:42,750 --> 00:46:39,370
people know we have

856
00:46:45,660 --> 00:46:42,760
Lovelace on he's a lawyer and he wrote

857
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:45,670
incident at Devil's Den which is a true

858
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:49,810
story of an alien abduction incidents

859
00:46:58,440 --> 00:46:54,160
and also an implant and it is available

860
00:47:01,770 --> 00:46:58,450
on Amazon for purchase and it is a very

861
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:01,780
very gripping and compelling story I

862
00:47:06,570 --> 00:47:03,970
read the whole thing through and I've

863
00:47:10,350 --> 00:47:06,580
read parts of it more than once so in

864
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:10,360
terms of us here on shattered reality we

865
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:13,570
thoroughly recommend the book so moving

866
00:47:21,330 --> 00:47:18,090
along to the incident that you had

867
00:47:23,540 --> 00:47:21,340
mentioned with the with the camping and

868
00:47:28,290 --> 00:47:23,550
our poor friend

869
00:47:33,180 --> 00:47:28,300
Tobias yes yes yes I just might mention

870
00:47:35,220 --> 00:47:33,190
that the black diamond that we saw we in

871
00:47:37,940 --> 00:47:35,230
no way thought that that was

872
00:47:40,590 --> 00:47:37,950
extraterrestrial we were certain that

873
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:40,600
was something from the Soviet Union I

874
00:47:45,150 --> 00:47:42,610
mean this was a height of the Cold War I

875
00:47:47,730 --> 00:47:45,160
mean I considered myself to be an expert

876
00:47:50,580 --> 00:47:47,740
on extraterrestrial things I'd seen two

877
00:47:54,090 --> 00:47:50,590
flying saucers this wasn't a saucer ergo

878
00:47:55,020 --> 00:47:54,100
it was not matter space which was we

879
00:47:58,620 --> 00:47:55,030
thought it was something from the

880
00:48:02,070 --> 00:47:58,630
Soviets but two years after this event

881
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:02,080
my buddy Toby says I got an idea let's

882
00:48:07,710 --> 00:48:04,930
go camping yeah I was from st. Louis

883
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:07,720
City he was from Flint Michigan and I

884
00:48:12,210 --> 00:48:09,970
said Toby were city boys what we don't

885
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:12,220
know the first thing about camping and

886
00:48:15,630 --> 00:48:13,810
he says yeah I know but you know how to

887
00:48:17,900 --> 00:48:15,640
be fun I was an amateur photographer

888
00:48:21,650 --> 00:48:17,910
everybody knew that I had a darkroom

889
00:48:25,710 --> 00:48:21,660
develop my own black-and-white film and

890
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:25,720
I thought about the idea for a while and

891
00:48:31,380 --> 00:48:29,290
it became in a matter of a 48 hours I

892
00:48:36,690 --> 00:48:31,390
went from just an idea it kind of became

893
00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:36,700
an obsession and it was just all

894
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:38,950
consuming and I said you know our lives

895
00:48:42,930 --> 00:48:40,450
aren't going to go along with this they

896
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:42,940
don't want to go he's like no no no man

897
00:48:47,100 --> 00:48:44,410
I'm just talking about the two of us

898
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:47,110
let's go down scope it out see if we

899
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:49,030
like it if we like it next time we'll

900
00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:51,370
bring we'll bring my kids and you and

901
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:52,569
your wife calm

902
00:48:59,549 --> 00:48:55,119
without it's so fun you know I hear it's

903
00:49:01,859 --> 00:48:59,559
a good time so we know nothing about the

904
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:01,869
out-of-doors but you packed all the

905
00:49:05,729 --> 00:49:03,910
things we thought were necessary you

906
00:49:09,929 --> 00:49:05,739
know industrial or military strength

907
00:49:13,799 --> 00:49:09,939
deep sunburn lotion and the like and we

908
00:49:16,259 --> 00:49:13,809
left at dawn in early morning and drove

909
00:49:18,359 --> 00:49:16,269
now keep it diet there's a there are a

910
00:49:20,969 --> 00:49:18,369
dozen state parks beautiful state parks

911
00:49:22,890 --> 00:49:20,979
around light an Air Force Base and I

912
00:49:24,509 --> 00:49:22,900
said you know Toby why do we got to

913
00:49:27,209 --> 00:49:24,519
drive all the way down the other side of

914
00:49:30,449 --> 00:49:27,219
the Arkansas border it's like manases

915
00:49:31,829 --> 00:49:30,459
the place he says this has everything

916
00:49:34,890 --> 00:49:31,839
that you need if you want to photograph

917
00:49:39,630 --> 00:49:34,900
Eagles this is the place to go and he

918
00:49:42,929 --> 00:49:39,640
sold me on the idea so we drove down and

919
00:49:45,029 --> 00:49:42,939
we decided we talked about staying in a

920
00:49:45,809 --> 00:49:45,039
campground and Toby's like what's the

921
00:49:48,509 --> 00:49:45,819
fun in that

922
00:49:50,999 --> 00:49:48,519
you know what outdoorsman you know if

923
00:49:53,870 --> 00:49:51,009
you stay in the campground it's like

924
00:49:55,919 --> 00:49:53,880
staying in a parking lot in the forest

925
00:49:57,359 --> 00:49:55,929
he said you know we want to get away

926
00:50:01,409 --> 00:49:57,369
from people we want to be out in the

927
00:50:04,249 --> 00:50:01,419
wilderness so we drove into the park and

928
00:50:08,759 --> 00:50:04,259
intentionally dodged the state or the

929
00:50:11,759 --> 00:50:08,769
park rangers and picked up a little map

930
00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:11,769
that showed us somewhere some ways

931
00:50:17,999 --> 00:50:15,089
throughout the park but then ended and

932
00:50:19,709 --> 00:50:18,009
we took a road and Toby said take this

933
00:50:21,269 --> 00:50:19,719
way and he seemed like told nobody

934
00:50:23,209 --> 00:50:21,279
seemed like he knew where he was going I

935
00:50:27,989 --> 00:50:23,219
swear this day I believed that

936
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:27,999
and he kept no he kept in a bank note or

937
00:50:33,599 --> 00:50:30,400
a baking envelope that was in my glove

938
00:50:36,029 --> 00:50:33,609
box that and a pencil and he made a map

939
00:50:38,339 --> 00:50:36,039
of our route because there were so many

940
00:50:39,749 --> 00:50:38,349
twists and turns and the scenery was all

941
00:50:40,499 --> 00:50:39,759
the same we wanted to make sure we could

942
00:50:46,099 --> 00:50:40,509
get out of there

943
00:50:50,130 --> 00:50:46,109
sure so we found a wee trove and if the

944
00:50:52,380 --> 00:50:50,140
road took an upward turn and we climbed

945
00:50:55,709 --> 00:50:52,390
higher and higher and we got to the

946
00:50:59,640 --> 00:50:55,719
crest of this plateau and there was this

947
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:59,650
open I called it a meadow in front of us

948
00:51:03,899 --> 00:51:01,119
that was just beautiful

949
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:03,909
and Toby was right it would be a base

950
00:51:10,050 --> 00:51:06,310
the photograph Eagles

951
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:10,060
well a lot happened to get to the

952
00:51:18,290 --> 00:51:14,610
camping we hurriedly set up camp and

953
00:51:21,690 --> 00:51:18,300
we're sitting around the campfire and

954
00:51:24,270 --> 00:51:21,700
Toby says hey man what are those were

955
00:51:26,340 --> 00:51:24,280
those things before what are you talking

956
00:51:30,030 --> 00:51:26,350
about and I look over his shoulder and

957
00:51:31,020 --> 00:51:30,040
there are there are three perfect little

958
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:31,030
stars

959
00:51:35,580 --> 00:51:33,130
I shouldn't say little they were about

960
00:51:37,940 --> 00:51:35,590
as bright as the North Star and they

961
00:51:42,030 --> 00:51:37,950
weren't a perfect triangular figuration

962
00:51:43,620 --> 00:51:42,040
sitting on the horizon and I said Toby

963
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:43,630
what are those you know you're the guy

964
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:45,310
you're the amateur astronomer what are

965
00:51:48,870 --> 00:51:46,690
those he's like man I don't know

966
00:51:50,850 --> 00:51:48,880
everything in the sky those and we

967
00:51:52,740 --> 00:51:50,860
discussed could that be aircraft that it

968
00:51:55,170 --> 00:51:52,750
you know and we're dismissive of that

969
00:52:00,900 --> 00:51:55,180
idea and then suddenly things starts to

970
00:52:04,620 --> 00:52:00,910
move uh-oh and it rotates as if on an

971
00:52:09,470 --> 00:52:04,630
axis about two-thirds of the way around

972
00:52:13,230 --> 00:52:09,480
and then starts to go up in the air and

973
00:52:16,290 --> 00:52:13,240
about the time this happened I I noticed

974
00:52:20,130 --> 00:52:16,300
that the crickets and the tree frogs and

975
00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:20,140
all the noise of the forest it stopped

976
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:24,160
it was dead silent and while we're

977
00:52:30,270 --> 00:52:27,510
watching this thing I said Toby is this

978
00:52:33,390 --> 00:52:30,280
is this right I don't hear the crickets

979
00:52:34,890 --> 00:52:33,400
for the frogs anymore and he's like yeah

980
00:52:36,210 --> 00:52:34,900
yeah yeah don't worry about that you

981
00:52:38,330 --> 00:52:36,220
know we've been laughing a joke and

982
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:38,340
they'll be back don't worry about it

983
00:52:48,750 --> 00:52:45,010
this strange apathy took over it's hard

984
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:48,760
to describe but we were we were only

985
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:51,370
slightly interested in watching this

986
00:52:56,970 --> 00:52:54,880
thing that we want you to send up into

987
00:53:00,350 --> 00:52:56,980
the sky and it was pretty clear that

988
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:00,360
this was one object and not three

989
00:53:06,510 --> 00:53:04,450
unconnected objects moving in unison and

990
00:53:08,910 --> 00:53:06,520
Toby noticed at first when it moved past

991
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:08,920
a star the star would link out until it

992
00:53:14,340 --> 00:53:12,010
passed and that would blink back on and

993
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:14,350
it started to move faster and as it

994
00:53:19,470 --> 00:53:16,930
moved faster it grew and it grew

995
00:53:19,980 --> 00:53:19,480
exponentially and these three points of

996
00:53:22,890 --> 00:53:19,990
light

997
00:53:25,620 --> 00:53:22,900
expanded and this thing is eventually

998
00:53:26,100 --> 00:53:25,630
eating up entire fields of stars oh my

999
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:26,110
lord

1000
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:30,910
and I asked Toby I said should we be

1001
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:33,610
scared and he's like no man I'm not

1002
00:53:38,540 --> 00:53:34,720
scared he's scared

1003
00:53:43,530 --> 00:53:38,550
never ever saying no I'm not scared and

1004
00:53:45,359 --> 00:53:43,540
we the thing parks directly over our

1005
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:45,369
head and it comes to a halt

1006
00:53:50,550 --> 00:53:47,890
and it takes up almost 1/3 of the night

1007
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:50,560
sky and it is like somebody took a pair

1008
00:53:56,340 --> 00:53:52,690
of scissors and cut out this massive

1009
00:53:58,940 --> 00:53:56,350
triangle over our heads because inside

1010
00:54:03,830 --> 00:53:58,950
of those three points was jet black and

1011
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:03,840
the rest of the sky was a deep blue and

1012
00:54:09,450 --> 00:54:06,970
we're looking at that and Toby says Toby

1013
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:09,460
picks up a flashlight and we're both

1014
00:54:13,170 --> 00:54:11,440
reclined we're not we're laying there

1015
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:13,180
Toby picks up a flashlight and says I

1016
00:54:17,850 --> 00:54:15,450
wonder what will happen if I signal it

1017
00:54:20,609 --> 00:54:17,860
and I tried to snatch it out of his

1018
00:54:22,890 --> 00:54:20,619
hands but I wasn't quick enough he holds

1019
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:22,900
his arm up over his head and he flicks

1020
00:54:29,310 --> 00:54:26,290
this flashlight on three times and when

1021
00:54:30,530 --> 00:54:29,320
he did this beam of light from the dead

1022
00:54:33,660 --> 00:54:30,540
center of this thing

1023
00:54:34,890 --> 00:54:33,670
she came down I mean it just like turned

1024
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:34,900
on like somebody flipped a switch

1025
00:54:41,609 --> 00:54:37,930
boom it's there ah it was about the

1026
00:54:43,740 --> 00:54:41,619
diameter of a softball and it was light

1027
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:43,750
that was visible like a searchlight

1028
00:54:54,570 --> 00:54:49,650
through a fog a column of light yes

1029
00:54:56,099 --> 00:54:54,580
Bheema visible light and we watched it

1030
00:55:00,120 --> 00:54:56,109
and I don't think a word was said

1031
00:55:03,450 --> 00:55:00,130
between us it was there for a minute

1032
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:03,460
and it's gone it just blinks out and in

1033
00:55:09,660 --> 00:55:06,880
its stead comes this laser and lasers

1034
00:55:16,099 --> 00:55:09,670
were a new concept in 1977 I had never

1035
00:55:19,770 --> 00:55:16,109
seen a laser and and there's this pencil

1036
00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:19,780
diameter of a pencil beam of purplish

1037
00:55:26,910 --> 00:55:24,910
blue light that shot down and it's just

1038
00:55:29,940 --> 00:55:26,920
darting and dancing all over the

1039
00:55:31,980 --> 00:55:29,950
campground and it would you know be here

1040
00:55:33,930 --> 00:55:31,990
one second flip off for a millisecond

1041
00:55:35,579 --> 00:55:33,940
and then be here one second

1042
00:55:37,380 --> 00:55:35,589
and I know it struck me several times

1043
00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:37,390
and I know it's told me several times

1044
00:55:43,710 --> 00:55:40,480
and it was just darted all over our

1045
00:55:47,030 --> 00:55:43,720
campsite and I think to this day it was

1046
00:55:51,150 --> 00:55:47,040
scanning us it was looking for us and

1047
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:51,160
that beam turned off and as soon as the

1048
00:55:56,579 --> 00:55:53,170
beam turned off tobe swamp shows over

1049
00:55:58,800 --> 00:55:56,589
and I don't even remember if I if I

1050
00:56:02,069 --> 00:55:58,810
answered him and we both got up and

1051
00:56:06,930 --> 00:56:02,079
dragged our air mattresses into the tent

1052
00:56:08,970 --> 00:56:06,940
with this thing the size of three city

1053
00:56:11,940 --> 00:56:08,980
blocks hanging over our heads it makes

1054
00:56:13,859 --> 00:56:11,950
no sense but that's what we did and we

1055
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:13,869
were absolutely apathetic about the

1056
00:56:20,819 --> 00:56:18,880
whole thing I II was just thinking I

1057
00:56:23,370 --> 00:56:20,829
laid my head on the pillow I remember

1058
00:56:26,359 --> 00:56:23,380
thinking Toby was wrong the crickets and

1059
00:56:30,660 --> 00:56:26,369
tree frogs they never did come back and

1060
00:56:32,910 --> 00:56:30,670
I closed my eyes and I woke up and there

1061
00:56:35,849 --> 00:56:32,920
were these brilliant lights flashing

1062
00:56:37,859 --> 00:56:35,859
orange and yellow and white and it was a

1063
00:56:41,430 --> 00:56:37,869
replay of the light show that I saw when

1064
00:56:46,050 --> 00:56:41,440
I was 11 and it illuminated the tent and

1065
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:46,060
I got to my knees and I mean I'm in a

1066
00:56:52,530 --> 00:56:48,970
fog from sleep and I don't have my wits

1067
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:52,540
about and I'm thinking park rangers are

1068
00:56:56,730 --> 00:56:54,400
there are trainers with flashlights out

1069
00:56:59,359 --> 00:56:56,740
there and we can hear rustling like

1070
00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:59,369
people walking around the campsite

1071
00:57:04,050 --> 00:57:01,119
Toby's crouched down

1072
00:57:06,150 --> 00:57:04,060
he's peering outside and between these

1073
00:57:09,359 --> 00:57:06,160
flashes of light I could see tracks of

1074
00:57:11,220 --> 00:57:09,369
tears down his right cheek I'm taking my

1075
00:57:14,849 --> 00:57:11,230
god what could make this grown man cry

1076
00:57:18,510 --> 00:57:14,859
and there was a drone there was that

1077
00:57:20,819 --> 00:57:18,520
mechanical drone again and I thought

1078
00:57:24,510 --> 00:57:20,829
maybe a generator in the back of a truck

1079
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:24,520
or something and I got to my knees and I

1080
00:57:29,819 --> 00:57:26,410
was in pain I noticed immediately how

1081
00:57:31,650 --> 00:57:29,829
badly I heard and I nudged Toby and I

1082
00:57:36,930 --> 00:57:31,660
pulled back the flap of the tent look

1083
00:57:38,730 --> 00:57:36,940
out and here's this UFO the size of a

1084
00:57:44,790 --> 00:57:38,740
five-story office building

1085
00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:44,800
it is incredibly big I think I drew an

1086
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:47,310
image I believe you may have

1087
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:49,890
and if you look at the bottom lower left

1088
00:57:55,340 --> 00:57:52,650
you'll see a car and some figure strong

1089
00:57:56,900 --> 00:57:55,350
uh-huh and I did that to try to bring

1090
00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:56,910
the thing to scale

1091
00:58:03,020 --> 00:57:59,520
I just can't convey how absolutely

1092
00:58:06,020 --> 00:58:03,030
immense this thing was and that interest

1093
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,030
that apathy that we had some hours

1094
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:08,880
earlier that was gone that was one that

1095
00:58:15,950 --> 00:58:11,250
was long gone now it was terror we were

1096
00:58:21,470 --> 00:58:15,960
absolutely terrified yes I'm walking out

1097
00:58:26,150 --> 00:58:21,480
and I notice there are groups of little

1098
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:26,160
kids and maybe a dozen or so and maybe

1099
00:58:32,060 --> 00:58:29,130
15 walking around in the meadow in

1100
00:58:34,100 --> 00:58:32,070
groups of two or three and there is a

1101
00:58:36,380 --> 00:58:34,110
column of light from the center of the

1102
00:58:39,620 --> 00:58:36,390
thing the the this UFO didn't Park on

1103
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:39,630
the ground it parked about 25 30 feet

1104
00:58:45,140 --> 00:58:42,000
off the off the floor of the meadow yes

1105
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:45,150
and from the center of it descended a

1106
00:58:51,590 --> 00:58:48,210
beam of light again visible like a

1107
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:51,600
searchlight through fog and these little

1108
00:58:59,090 --> 00:58:56,970
beings would walk into it and they just

1109
00:59:03,740 --> 00:58:59,100
disintegrate they disappear and they

1110
00:59:05,810 --> 00:59:03,750
were children but that's what I said

1111
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:05,820
Toby what are these little kids doing

1112
00:59:12,890 --> 00:59:09,450
out here and he said man those ain't no

1113
00:59:18,140 --> 00:59:12,900
little kids and then it hit and then I

1114
00:59:24,860 --> 00:59:18,150
had flashes I had flashes of being

1115
00:59:28,850 --> 00:59:24,870
abducted and hurt and we we were too

1116
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:28,860
terrified to move I mean we stayed in

1117
00:59:33,380 --> 00:59:31,920
the tent we watched this thing until all

1118
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:33,390
these little figures had disintegrated

1119
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:36,090
and gone back up and then the light

1120
00:59:43,850 --> 00:59:38,730
clicked off and the humming sound

1121
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:43,860
stopped and there were three ball I can

1122
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:46,410
only see two on each point of the

1123
00:59:52,790 --> 00:59:49,410
triangle there was a light bar that went

1124
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:52,800
through all five stories and I remember

1125
00:59:58,460 --> 00:59:55,530
seeing this white light and it drift up

1126
01:00:00,680 --> 00:59:58,470
since white leg go up and up and up and

1127
01:00:01,100 --> 01:00:00,690
then I thought you know I bet that's

1128
01:00:03,170 --> 01:00:01,110
what make

1129
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:03,180
a twinkle in the sky and look like a

1130
01:00:10,940 --> 01:00:06,930
star it's an odd observation to make but

1131
01:00:14,150 --> 01:00:10,950
I made it and we rolled over and are on

1132
01:00:16,550 --> 01:00:14,160
our backs and we watched this thing you

1133
01:00:18,770 --> 01:00:16,560
know again lifts off like a hot-air

1134
01:00:22,030 --> 01:00:18,780
balloon it didn't shoot off it just

1135
01:00:25,940 --> 01:00:22,040
lifted off like a hot air balloon and

1136
01:00:28,790 --> 01:00:25,950
ascended into the sky and we watched it

1137
01:00:33,650 --> 01:00:28,800
as it got higher and higher and it

1138
01:00:36,410 --> 01:00:33,660
disappeared and everything is still

1139
01:00:37,580 --> 01:00:36,420
quiet no tree frogs no crickets it's

1140
01:00:41,930 --> 01:00:37,590
dead quiet

1141
01:00:44,450 --> 01:00:41,940
and we're both terrified we sat there

1142
01:00:47,380 --> 01:00:44,460
for what must have been 30 minutes and

1143
01:00:51,230 --> 01:00:47,390
Toby says man we gotta get out of here

1144
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:51,240
and I was terrified at the idea of being

1145
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:53,250
out of the tent I did not want to leave

1146
01:00:58,130 --> 01:00:55,770
I felt like I was safe inside the tent I

1147
01:01:02,390 --> 01:00:58,140
think I felt like to be out in the open

1148
01:01:05,090 --> 01:01:02,400
I would be vulnerable and that fear has

1149
01:01:07,490 --> 01:01:05,100
stuck with me I don't like to be out in

1150
01:01:11,300 --> 01:01:07,500
an open field I don't like to be

1151
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:11,310
anyplace out in the wide open a wide

1152
01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:14,250
open area it's called agoraphobia yes is

1153
01:01:22,270 --> 01:01:17,760
that fear agoraphobia fear of the open

1154
01:01:25,220 --> 01:01:22,280
spaces yes that's why I have that still

1155
01:01:28,190 --> 01:01:25,230
we made a decision that we would run for

1156
01:01:31,460 --> 01:01:28,200
the car and that's what we did and went

1157
01:01:33,530 --> 01:01:31,470
to the car hopped in and got out of

1158
01:01:36,590 --> 01:01:33,540
there and drove back to base as fast as

1159
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:36,600
we could and we left everything there we

1160
01:01:46,150 --> 01:01:41,450
left the tent we left Hospital blankets

1161
01:01:49,370 --> 01:01:46,160
all of our gear equipment I'm assuming

1162
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:49,380
cost you some amount of money and being

1163
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:51,290
in the military you guys weren't

1164
01:01:55,970 --> 01:01:54,000
millionaires or anything so that was you

1165
01:02:02,150 --> 01:01:55,980
did leave some of your investment there

1166
01:02:07,610 --> 01:02:02,160
and so that is that attests to your fear

1167
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:07,620
level upon leaving it was terror it I

1168
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:11,970
don't know how to describe it and to

1169
01:02:18,230 --> 01:02:14,570
drive with just your high beams on

1170
01:02:23,150 --> 01:02:18,240
through this road that's not much more

1171
01:02:24,890 --> 01:02:23,160
than ruts the high beams would bounce up

1172
01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:24,900
in the trees sometimes and it'd be on

1173
01:02:28,790 --> 01:02:26,640
the ground in front of us I could barely

1174
01:02:31,010 --> 01:02:28,800
see Toby would have to reach over and

1175
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:31,020
turn on the dome light to look at his

1176
01:02:37,460 --> 01:02:32,970
little map to figure out which way to go

1177
01:02:39,950 --> 01:02:37,470
and then I'd be blind but we managed to

1178
01:02:44,930 --> 01:02:39,960
get out of there and we hit blacktop

1179
01:02:46,220 --> 01:02:44,940
Road and headed back to base and there

1180
01:02:48,130 --> 01:02:46,230
there were there were just a couple

1181
01:02:50,450 --> 01:02:48,140
things that were important to us I

1182
01:02:53,150 --> 01:02:50,460
wanted to get as much distance between

1183
01:02:55,490 --> 01:02:53,160
me and the Devils then as I could

1184
01:02:59,240 --> 01:02:55,500
possibly manage as fast as I could

1185
01:03:01,910 --> 01:02:59,250
manage it to astir stay we were

1186
01:03:05,210 --> 01:03:01,920
incredibly thirsty I had never ever in

1187
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:05,220
my life and so thirsty I asked Toby root

1188
01:03:08,420 --> 01:03:06,930
around in the backseat seeing if I'll

1189
01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:08,430
drink anything as long as it's not

1190
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:11,849
poison and you know you would think I

1191
01:03:15,950 --> 01:03:13,680
will pull over to 7-eleven or someplace

1192
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:15,960
and get something to drink well this is

1193
01:03:23,660 --> 01:03:18,810
the backwoods of Missouri in 1977 in the

1194
01:03:25,940 --> 01:03:23,670
Ozarks there was no place so we drove

1195
01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:25,950
and until we could get someplace we

1196
01:03:31,609 --> 01:03:29,520
found a little gas station and that's

1197
01:03:35,540 --> 01:03:31,619
when I found out how badly I was burned

1198
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:35,550
both of us were burned I had sunburn on

1199
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:37,920
the soles of my feet I had sunburn under

1200
01:03:44,270 --> 01:03:41,250
my arms it made no sense I would have

1201
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:44,280
had been nude on a rotisserie had been

1202
01:03:51,260 --> 01:03:47,520
burned the way I was burned and the

1203
01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:51,270
thirst was just unbelievable we got home

1204
01:03:56,620 --> 01:03:53,520
or wives of course took us both to the

1205
01:03:59,900 --> 01:03:56,630
hospital immediately and the hospital

1206
01:04:01,930 --> 01:03:59,910
separated us and it was also odd because

1207
01:04:04,430 --> 01:04:01,940
they gave us private rooms military

1208
01:04:07,940 --> 01:04:04,440
we're talking about here military

1209
01:04:09,650 --> 01:04:07,950
hospital military hospital unless the

1210
01:04:12,109 --> 01:04:09,660
guys normally didn't get a private room

1211
01:04:15,170 --> 01:04:12,119
normally we would stay on the ward and

1212
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:15,180
open the ward so I thought this is great

1213
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:19,440
you know private room oh and I was

1214
01:04:24,829 --> 01:04:21,810
incredibly photo phobic so they allowed

1215
01:04:25,140 --> 01:04:24,839
the lights to stay turned off and they

1216
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:25,150
were

1217
01:04:32,339 --> 01:04:29,049
and fluids into us and I was feeling

1218
01:04:36,690 --> 01:04:32,349
better that's about 24 36 hours later

1219
01:04:39,180 --> 01:04:36,700
and my nurse comes in she's got my pain

1220
01:04:41,819 --> 01:04:39,190
meds she's got a junction in her hand or

1221
01:04:45,089 --> 01:04:41,829
hypodermic needle in her hand and two

1222
01:04:48,420 --> 01:04:45,099
guys in suits follow her in and they're

1223
01:04:52,349 --> 01:04:48,430
they're dressed in blue civilian suits

1224
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:52,359
and they show me their badges they say

1225
01:04:57,960 --> 01:04:55,690
we're special agents from the Office of

1226
01:05:01,019 --> 01:04:57,970
Special Investigation on a Special Agent

1227
01:05:02,789 --> 01:05:01,029
Gregory this is captain so-and-so the

1228
01:05:05,789 --> 01:05:02,799
guy in charge Gregory did all the

1229
01:05:08,069 --> 01:05:05,799
talking and this was AFOs I write a Pho

1230
01:05:13,380 --> 01:05:08,079
see this was I'm sorry

1231
01:05:26,039 --> 01:05:13,390
AAF OSI Air Force Air Force Office of

1232
01:05:29,730 --> 01:05:26,049
Special Investigations absolutely and

1233
01:05:33,180 --> 01:05:29,740
they they pulled up a chair next to each

1234
01:05:35,130 --> 01:05:33,190
side of us and this pager reached over

1235
01:05:37,470 --> 01:05:35,140
and flipped on the lights and I said sir

1236
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:37,480
my eyes I feel like I have sand in my

1237
01:05:43,349 --> 01:05:40,210
eyes could we turn those off please and

1238
01:05:45,809 --> 01:05:43,359
I remember he was I got to see what I'm

1239
01:05:47,339 --> 01:05:45,819
doing son you don't want me to work in

1240
01:05:50,029 --> 01:05:47,349
the dark now here do you

1241
01:05:52,980 --> 01:05:50,039
we got to see what we're doing son and

1242
01:05:55,019 --> 01:05:52,990
the captain cranks it was like hand

1243
01:05:58,440 --> 01:05:55,029
crank that he cranks up the head of my

1244
01:06:00,299 --> 01:05:58,450
bed and slides everything off of the

1245
01:06:03,029 --> 01:06:00,309
office the office of the yeah pardon me

1246
01:06:05,569 --> 01:06:03,039
the tray table that was in front of me

1247
01:06:11,609 --> 01:06:05,579
and slides it so it's under my chest and

1248
01:06:16,799 --> 01:06:11,619
the making a very long story short lays

1249
01:06:20,609 --> 01:06:16,809
out six forms for me to sign I couldn't

1250
01:06:22,769 --> 01:06:20,619
read them and I said sir what are these

1251
01:06:24,660 --> 01:06:22,779
and he says these are waivers and

1252
01:06:27,059 --> 01:06:24,670
consents these give us certain rights

1253
01:06:28,859 --> 01:06:27,069
they give us rights to look to see if

1254
01:06:31,589 --> 01:06:28,869
you have any contraband do you have

1255
01:06:33,900 --> 01:06:31,599
anything that you're hiding from us no

1256
01:06:35,940 --> 01:06:33,910
sir and he says well this will give us

1257
01:06:38,370 --> 01:06:35,950
your consent you wanted that deny as

1258
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:38,380
consent is that what you're saying or do

1259
01:06:41,220 --> 01:06:38,770
you want

1260
01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:41,230
operate with us I'm like oh no sir I

1261
01:06:45,210 --> 01:06:42,400
want to cooperate

1262
01:06:48,180 --> 01:06:45,220
you know I'm 22 I'm dumb I didn't have

1263
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:48,190
the benefit of a law degree I signed

1264
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:50,770
everything in front of me he scooped him

1265
01:06:55,770 --> 01:06:53,170
up put him in his little briefcase and

1266
01:06:58,140 --> 01:06:55,780
he said now what made you boys leave

1267
01:07:00,300 --> 01:06:58,150
your campsite and leave all your gear

1268
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:00,310
there the park rangers found it and

1269
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:01,570
that's that's how they tracked you down

1270
01:07:06,570 --> 01:07:04,450
we tracked you down why would you leave

1271
01:07:09,570 --> 01:07:06,580
your campsite and leave everything there

1272
01:07:11,850 --> 01:07:09,580
it's a plan on coming back did you have

1273
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:11,860
a little marijuana plant somewhere out

1274
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:13,810
there a little plot of marijuana you're

1275
01:07:20,370 --> 01:07:17,290
growing out in the forest and I thought

1276
01:07:22,830 --> 01:07:20,380
oh my god maybe they found somebody's

1277
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:22,840
plot of marijuana and could hang it on

1278
01:07:32,580 --> 01:07:30,610
us I'm terrified and he says so tell me

1279
01:07:36,630 --> 01:07:32,590
you tell us what you did out there and I

1280
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:36,640
told him and you know I did not tell him

1281
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:40,210
about the UFO I just didn't do it the

1282
01:07:46,140 --> 01:07:41,890
thought of the thought of even doing it

1283
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:46,150
never crossed my mind and I answered his

1284
01:07:49,940 --> 01:07:48,370
questions as best that I could and he

1285
01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:49,950
was just absolutely all about

1286
01:07:58,740 --> 01:07:55,510
intimidation and at the end his effect

1287
01:08:02,010 --> 01:07:58,750
changes to look kind of almost like a

1288
01:08:05,130 --> 01:08:02,020
normal human being and he leans down

1289
01:08:07,770 --> 01:08:05,140
next to my ear and says you two

1290
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:07,780
knuckleheads stumbled onto something out

1291
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:11,290
there didn't you and I didn't answer him

1292
01:08:16,110 --> 01:08:15,010
and he says you know what it is and I

1293
01:08:18,690 --> 01:08:16,120
know what it is

1294
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:18,700
and I think you took pictures of it and

1295
01:08:22,950 --> 01:08:20,170
I want your pictures

1296
01:08:25,050 --> 01:08:22,960
he says that's all I need give me the

1297
01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:25,060
film from your camera that's all I'm

1298
01:08:32,370 --> 01:08:28,510
asking you for and I said sir I never

1299
01:08:37,140 --> 01:08:32,380
took a single picture and he said I

1300
01:08:42,329 --> 01:08:37,150
don't believe you and turn the lights

1301
01:08:47,210 --> 01:08:42,339
out and he left Toby and I were ordered

1302
01:08:49,769 --> 01:08:47,220
to have no contact with one another and

1303
01:08:51,450 --> 01:08:49,779
but I need that I need to move past that

1304
01:08:52,499 --> 01:08:51,460
to get to the interrogation because

1305
01:08:54,419 --> 01:08:52,509
that's important

1306
01:08:56,609 --> 01:08:54,429
you had I just want to add something in

1307
01:08:59,010 --> 01:08:56,619
there because unfortunately because our

1308
01:09:01,470 --> 01:08:59,020
time was is running out a little bit you

1309
01:09:03,689 --> 01:09:01,480
had planned to take pictures you bought

1310
01:09:06,269 --> 01:09:03,699
all kinds of film but at the very last

1311
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:06,279
moment you forgot that and a number of

1312
01:09:13,289 --> 01:09:08,770
other things you forgot at home and it

1313
01:09:16,019 --> 01:09:13,299
sort of seemed as though it was somehow

1314
01:09:18,930 --> 01:09:16,029
you were programmed to forget it for

1315
01:09:21,090 --> 01:09:18,940
lack of a better word I'm glad you said

1316
01:09:23,669 --> 01:09:21,100
that because that's absolutely true

1317
01:09:26,269 --> 01:09:23,679
I mean we we were known as the Nerds of

1318
01:09:29,249 --> 01:09:26,279
the squadron if that makes sense and you

1319
01:09:30,510 --> 01:09:29,259
know we we did things methodically we

1320
01:09:32,579 --> 01:09:30,520
laid out with pencil and paper

1321
01:09:36,149 --> 01:09:32,589
everything we needed you know I had a

1322
01:09:39,269 --> 01:09:36,159
camp Lantern a hatchet I had I bought

1323
01:09:41,430 --> 01:09:39,279
special film for my camera and I left it

1324
01:09:44,579 --> 01:09:41,440
at home I left the key I left the camera

1325
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:44,589
sitting on the kitchen table and the

1326
01:09:49,349 --> 01:09:47,650
lamp camp lantern and oil or the fuel

1327
01:09:53,129 --> 01:09:49,359
and a hatchet I left that in the garage

1328
01:09:55,290 --> 01:09:53,139
and Toby who was in charge of bringing

1329
01:09:59,300 --> 01:09:55,300
two six-packs of beer a dozen hot dogs

1330
01:10:02,520 --> 01:09:59,310
etc left everything in his refrigerator

1331
01:10:04,649 --> 01:10:02,530
and you know it strikes me it struck me

1332
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:04,659
and I don't understand that we were just

1333
01:10:10,379 --> 01:10:07,090
we're just not bad inept we've who he

1334
01:10:12,870 --> 01:10:10,389
are not bad inept but this whole thing

1335
01:10:15,810 --> 01:10:12,880
was just a bumbling I do think too that

1336
01:10:18,209 --> 01:10:15,820
Toby knew where to go you know he may

1337
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:18,219
not know that he knew where to go but he

1338
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:21,130
knew where to go and basically after

1339
01:10:25,410 --> 01:10:24,250
this happened except for like sort of

1340
01:10:28,169 --> 01:10:25,420
one last goodbye

1341
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:28,179
you never saw Toby again because she was

1342
01:10:36,169 --> 01:10:32,050
relocated correct yes well a couple of

1343
01:10:39,510 --> 01:10:36,179
things when when as soon as that car hit

1344
01:10:42,750 --> 01:10:39,520
pavement and we were headed back to the

1345
01:10:45,660 --> 01:10:42,760
base I looked over and Toby who I think

1346
01:10:47,310 --> 01:10:45,670
Toby was hurt a lot worse than I was and

1347
01:10:49,229 --> 01:10:47,320
he was kind of curled into a fetal

1348
01:10:53,580 --> 01:10:49,239
position on the big bench seat at this

1349
01:10:57,060 --> 01:10:53,590
old Chevy and I felt the sudden dislike

1350
01:11:01,200 --> 01:10:57,070
for the man and it actually shook my

1351
01:11:03,979 --> 01:11:01,210
head I'm thinking what what is this and

1352
01:11:06,380 --> 01:11:03,989
I thought you know this is all his fault

1353
01:11:10,220 --> 01:11:06,390
he brought you down here

1354
01:11:13,070 --> 01:11:10,230
this man's not your friend and this man

1355
01:11:15,740 --> 01:11:13,080
absolutely was my best friend but I

1356
01:11:18,410 --> 01:11:15,750
wanted nothing to do with him I didn't I

1357
01:11:19,970 --> 01:11:18,420
didn't even want to see him it's the

1358
01:11:23,990 --> 01:11:19,980
strangest thing I want nothing to do

1359
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:24,000
with him and before he left I violated

1360
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:27,210
no contact order I didn't want to I

1361
01:11:30,380 --> 01:11:28,560
didn't want anything to do with the guy

1362
01:11:33,170 --> 01:11:30,390
but I didn't want to say I felt the need

1363
01:11:35,570 --> 01:11:33,180
to say goodbye to him so I went to his

1364
01:11:38,410 --> 01:11:35,580
house and they were packing and they

1365
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:38,420
were getting ready to be shipped out and

1366
01:11:43,970 --> 01:11:41,250
now Toby Toby was the kind of guy that

1367
01:11:46,610 --> 01:11:43,980
when we barbecued every other weekend or

1368
01:11:50,690 --> 01:11:46,620
so he might have two beers you know he

1369
01:11:53,420 --> 01:11:50,700
wasn't a drinker and I walk in then a.m.

1370
01:11:54,380 --> 01:11:53,430
he turns the corner and he looks like a

1371
01:11:56,540 --> 01:11:54,390
train wreck

1372
01:11:59,180 --> 01:11:56,550
and his poor guy his eyes are bloodshot

1373
01:12:03,890 --> 01:11:59,190
and he reeks of vodka it's 10 o'clock in

1374
01:12:06,170 --> 01:12:03,900
the morning and I see him and I feel

1375
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:06,180
stunned and I looked down at my shoes

1376
01:12:11,150 --> 01:12:08,730
and I mean I should have been raced this

1377
01:12:16,340 --> 01:12:11,160
man I should have shaken his hand but I

1378
01:12:18,230 --> 01:12:16,350
didn't I just froze and and I managed to

1379
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:18,240
say Toby I just wanted to say goodbye

1380
01:12:24,260 --> 01:12:22,260
and wish you well and he looked up at me

1381
01:12:27,410 --> 01:12:24,270
and he said it happened didn't it Terry

1382
01:12:30,890 --> 01:12:27,420
they heard us they hurt me and they hurt

1383
01:12:32,810 --> 01:12:30,900
you too and I said yeah Toby it all

1384
01:12:35,780 --> 01:12:32,820
happened and you're not going crazy

1385
01:12:39,770 --> 01:12:35,790
and I turned around and I ran out of the

1386
01:12:44,110 --> 01:12:39,780
house ad in the car and went home and

1387
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:49,160
so the Office of Special Investigation

1388
01:12:55,970 --> 01:12:52,890
about what about six weeks into this

1389
01:12:59,900 --> 01:12:55,980
thing I I'm worried that I'm under

1390
01:13:01,610 --> 01:12:59,910
investigation so I call special agent

1391
01:13:04,340 --> 01:13:01,620
Gregory he left a business card on my

1392
01:13:07,550 --> 01:13:04,350
tray table and I said sir I have an idea

1393
01:13:09,620 --> 01:13:07,560
why don't I take a lie-detector test for

1394
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:09,630
you I can prove I don't have any film I

1395
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:13,410
don't I don't you know I don't I don't

1396
01:13:18,500 --> 01:13:15,210
know if you're a lot of plot you know

1397
01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:18,510
I'm not deceiving you and of course in

1398
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:19,860
the back of my mind I'm thinking well

1399
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:20,320
yeah you

1400
01:13:24,660 --> 01:13:21,610
we're deceiving the Spanish you're not

1401
01:13:27,359 --> 01:13:24,670
telling him about the UFO but you know I

1402
01:13:30,419 --> 01:13:27,369
just wanted this thing over with it was

1403
01:13:33,209 --> 01:13:30,429
hanging over my head and he said did you

1404
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:33,219
have any film for me yet and I said no

1405
01:13:37,669 --> 01:13:35,650
sir and he says well we got nothing to

1406
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:37,679
talk about

1407
01:13:44,399 --> 01:13:40,690
he said oh he said I guess you want to

1408
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:44,409
change your blue uniform for a one

1409
01:13:49,470 --> 01:13:47,770
that's black and white with stripes is

1410
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:49,480
that what you want meaning a prison

1411
01:13:53,879 --> 01:13:50,050
uniform

1412
01:13:56,930 --> 01:13:53,889
yes and he said I got my own lie

1413
01:14:02,640 --> 01:13:56,940
detector and he slammed the phone down

1414
01:14:07,069 --> 01:14:02,650
six weeks afterward I'm busy I'm reached

1415
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:07,079
they re over to a supply section and

1416
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:10,810
they my co calls me and says they want

1417
01:14:14,459 --> 01:14:12,610
to see you down at OSI headquarters

1418
01:14:16,339 --> 01:14:14,469
there'll be a car here for you shortly

1419
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:16,349
I suggest you don't keep them waiting

1420
01:14:24,330 --> 01:14:21,489
and I owe my god and I I thought aired

1421
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:24,340
here comes I'm you're gonna be arrested

1422
01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:27,010
I stopped to use the restaurant and

1423
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:29,920
that's so important that I did and I'll

1424
01:14:35,010 --> 01:14:33,130
explain why and check my parents and

1425
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:35,020
tried to look as good as I could and I I

1426
01:14:38,850 --> 01:14:37,090
ran to the fourth steps and sure enough

1427
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:38,860
there's the blue squad car waiting for

1428
01:14:44,189 --> 01:14:42,610
me and the driver took me to OS I had

1429
01:14:47,069 --> 01:14:44,199
orders and parked the car and then

1430
01:14:49,260 --> 01:14:47,079
follow me and I followed a man went

1431
01:14:52,350 --> 01:14:49,270
through the double locked doors that

1432
01:14:56,780 --> 01:14:52,360
buzz to get you in and get you out we

1433
01:14:59,310 --> 01:14:56,790
went out a long hallway when it had

1434
01:15:02,300 --> 01:14:59,320
little little Tara Gatien rooms on

1435
01:15:05,609 --> 01:15:02,310
either side and they were ABCD

1436
01:15:09,149 --> 01:15:05,619
designated and I think we were in room D

1437
01:15:11,100 --> 01:15:09,159
and he opened the door with a key and

1438
01:15:14,189 --> 01:15:11,110
said someone will be with you shortly

1439
01:15:16,350 --> 01:15:14,199
and the door shut and I knew it was

1440
01:15:18,450 --> 01:15:16,360
locked

1441
01:15:22,470 --> 01:15:18,460
I know it was like now this is about

1442
01:15:25,770 --> 01:15:22,480
9:00 a.m. or so and there's nothing in

1443
01:15:28,890 --> 01:15:25,780
the room but a desk a comfortable desk

1444
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:28,900
chair and three aluminum chairs those

1445
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:32,010
fiberglass chairs like from the 60s a

1446
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:34,810
mirror which I sized up had to

1447
01:15:38,070 --> 01:15:36,610
a two-way mirror because who's gonna be

1448
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:38,080
grooming themselves in this

1449
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:41,290
interrogation room and a clock oh

1450
01:15:47,700 --> 01:15:43,890
there's a little five by seven window

1451
01:15:50,940 --> 01:15:47,710
five inches by seven inch window and I

1452
01:15:55,380 --> 01:15:50,950
sat there for three hours and not a soul

1453
01:15:58,530 --> 01:15:55,390
past that window or came by and finally

1454
01:16:00,690 --> 01:15:58,540
the two agents that I said Gregory and

1455
01:16:03,180 --> 01:16:00,700
the captain they comes strolling in

1456
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:03,190
there smiling and laughing and they came

1457
01:16:07,260 --> 01:16:05,010
in and they didn't say a word to me

1458
01:16:10,140 --> 01:16:07,270
except to make me surrender the chair

1459
01:16:14,300 --> 01:16:10,150
that was comfortable and he put me in

1460
01:16:17,100 --> 01:16:14,310
with a little fibreglass chairs and me

1461
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:17,110
Gregory's kind of up a tease as well

1462
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:18,730
sorry lovely I think we're putting into

1463
01:16:24,030 --> 01:16:20,530
this today for you would you like that I

1464
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:24,040
said yes sir I'd like that very much and

1465
01:16:27,480 --> 01:16:24,850
he said you know you're gonna be

1466
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:27,490
hypnotized today and we're going to give

1467
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:29,050
you some medication that'll make it

1468
01:16:35,010 --> 01:16:31,650
easier for you do you understand that

1469
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:35,020
and I said no sir I don't understand it

1470
01:16:41,940 --> 01:16:37,330
I don't know why and he cut me off

1471
01:16:44,250 --> 01:16:41,950
at the Y in my sentence and had a piece

1472
01:16:46,500 --> 01:16:44,260
of paper in his hand he slammed it down

1473
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:46,510
in the table in front of me and said

1474
01:16:57,390 --> 01:16:51,930
this is all the why I need Sun and I

1475
01:16:59,580 --> 01:16:57,400
signed a consent this was a consent that

1476
01:17:03,960 --> 01:16:59,590
you had signed up several months before

1477
01:17:05,190 --> 01:17:03,970
so yes several months before yes okay

1478
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:05,200
when I was in the hospital when I

1479
01:17:11,460 --> 01:17:07,330
couldn't see when I couldn't read right

1480
01:17:14,130 --> 01:17:11,470
and just then after we're doing this the

1481
01:17:16,170 --> 01:17:14,140
major knocks on a door and a captain

1482
01:17:19,940 --> 01:17:16,180
Letson and this this major comes in he's

1483
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:19,950
wearing oak leaves but no nametag and

1484
01:17:25,890 --> 01:17:23,530
his demeanor it's odd I know he carried

1485
01:17:29,550 --> 01:17:25,900
himself like a priest or a therapist but

1486
01:17:31,140 --> 01:17:29,560
not like a military officer and he he

1487
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:31,150
talked to the special agents for a

1488
01:17:34,860 --> 01:17:33,130
couple seconds hey are you guys doing

1489
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:34,870
you know they talked about golf for a

1490
01:17:40,020 --> 01:17:37,810
minute or two and then he turned his

1491
01:17:42,330 --> 01:17:40,030
attention to me and says well sergeant

1492
01:17:45,570 --> 01:17:42,340
Lovelace I finally get to meet you how

1493
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:45,580
are you and he shook my hand like he was

1494
01:17:49,850 --> 01:17:47,970
an old friend

1495
01:17:51,950 --> 01:17:49,860
and he said you know you're gonna be

1496
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:51,960
hypnotized today I said yes sir I don't

1497
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:54,570
understand why and he said now you're

1498
01:17:59,140 --> 01:17:56,130
not thinking about withdrawing your

1499
01:18:01,640 --> 01:17:59,150
consent is that what you're telling me I

1500
01:18:03,890 --> 01:18:01,650
said no sir no sir I want to get this

1501
01:18:07,340 --> 01:18:03,900
done sir I want to get this behind me I

1502
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:07,350
want to move on with my life and as he

1503
01:18:12,290 --> 01:18:10,290
changed any that his demeanor turned on

1504
01:18:14,500 --> 01:18:12,300
a dime and he said well my name is major

1505
01:18:17,330 --> 01:18:14,510
brownfield but for today's exercise

1506
01:18:21,530 --> 01:18:17,340
would you just call me Brad that is my

1507
01:18:25,940 --> 01:18:21,540
name and I said yes sir and he said

1508
01:18:28,580 --> 01:18:25,950
don't you mean yes Brad and I said yes

1509
01:18:30,740 --> 01:18:28,590
yes Brad and he said for purposes of

1510
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:30,750
this little exercise today may I call

1511
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:35,610
you Terry it is you name and I said yes

1512
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:41,130
Brad and he so I understand you from st.

1513
01:18:46,100 --> 01:18:43,770
Louis he started talking small chat chit

1514
01:18:49,610 --> 01:18:46,110
chit chat about st. Louis and named off

1515
01:18:52,010 --> 01:18:49,620
some landmarks and engaged me a

1516
01:18:54,050 --> 01:18:52,020
conversation and I'm thinking you know

1517
01:18:57,050 --> 01:18:54,060
my life just isn't this interesting and

1518
01:18:58,820 --> 01:18:57,060
he must have picked up on that because

1519
01:19:02,420 --> 01:18:58,830
he stopped and kind of got down to

1520
01:19:05,060 --> 01:19:02,430
business and said you know you just

1521
01:19:07,340 --> 01:19:05,070
reached over he took my my right arm and

1522
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:07,350
laid it down to the table and he's

1523
01:19:13,100 --> 01:19:10,370
humming all the while rolls up my sleeve

1524
01:19:15,340 --> 01:19:13,110
he carried under his arm a little what

1525
01:19:17,900 --> 01:19:15,350
looked like a shaving kit it was leather

1526
01:19:20,420 --> 01:19:17,910
and a little larger than an average

1527
01:19:23,210 --> 01:19:20,430
shaving kit and then it was a little

1528
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:23,220
white towel a hypodermic it Oh was

1529
01:19:28,100 --> 01:19:25,410
something yeah or I yellow yellow fluid

1530
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:28,110
in it piece of rubber tubing to use as a

1531
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:30,810
tourniquet some bandages some alcohol

1532
01:19:38,210 --> 01:19:35,610
swabs and a stethoscope and pressure

1533
01:19:40,190 --> 01:19:38,220
cuff and he laid all these things out

1534
01:19:43,430 --> 01:19:40,200
meticulously and he's humming the whole

1535
01:19:45,530 --> 01:19:43,440
while and he puts the tourniquet on and

1536
01:19:46,910 --> 01:19:45,540
he says now you know you're gonna feel a

1537
01:19:49,460 --> 01:19:46,920
little pinch here and then you're gonna

1538
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:49,470
feel sedated and he says it's okay it'll

1539
01:19:54,860 --> 01:19:52,650
just help you remember and he said don't

1540
01:19:57,950 --> 01:19:54,870
fight it just go along with it and he

1541
01:20:00,290 --> 01:19:57,960
says you know it'll make you feel like

1542
01:20:01,790 --> 01:20:00,300
you've had a few beers and he winks at

1543
01:20:03,230 --> 01:20:01,800
me and says you look like

1544
01:20:07,340 --> 01:20:03,240
that likes to have a few beers in the

1545
01:20:11,590 --> 01:20:07,350
weekend and I thought you you lasso be

1546
01:20:15,740 --> 01:20:11,600
you know that all enlisted men drink

1547
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:15,750
characterized me like that but he had a

1548
01:20:22,340 --> 01:20:18,330
voice he had a voice that was smooth

1549
01:20:26,510 --> 01:20:22,350
like a radio announcer and he said

1550
01:20:28,910 --> 01:20:26,520
alright I'm I'm he gave me the

1551
01:20:30,290 --> 01:20:28,920
medication and then we're gonna Isis

1552
01:20:34,070 --> 01:20:30,300
we're gonna go down to a flight of

1553
01:20:37,130 --> 01:20:34,080
stairs and in my mind's eye I had had

1554
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:37,140
some psych classes under my belt and I

1555
01:20:43,460 --> 01:20:40,170
knew a little bit about hypnosis and I

1556
01:20:46,130 --> 01:20:43,470
knew that it could be resisted the

1557
01:20:49,430 --> 01:20:46,140
medication worried me but I knew that I

1558
01:20:54,020 --> 01:20:49,440
could resist being hypnotized and I did

1559
01:20:56,930 --> 01:20:54,030
my best to play along with it but as

1560
01:20:58,850 --> 01:20:56,940
he's when I do was he had me go okay

1561
01:21:01,370 --> 01:20:58,860
Terry I want you to take that first step

1562
01:21:04,550 --> 01:21:01,380
down the stairwell take that first step

1563
01:21:06,770 --> 01:21:04,560
and feel relaxed taking that next step

1564
01:21:08,930 --> 01:21:06,780
feeling twice as relaxed feeling

1565
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:08,940
comfortable feeling warm feeling safe

1566
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:12,210
taking that third step Terry feelings

1567
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:16,080
relaxed and just as he's doing this I'm

1568
01:21:22,460 --> 01:21:19,290
drowning him out in my mind I'm trying

1569
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:22,470
to go backward on a number line as he's

1570
01:21:30,140 --> 01:21:27,330
going down I'm counting upward and I'm

1571
01:21:33,230 --> 01:21:30,150
doing everything I can had not surrender

1572
01:21:36,770 --> 01:21:33,240
all my mind if that makes sense yeah

1573
01:21:39,740 --> 01:21:36,780
sure it sounds a lot like some youtube

1574
01:21:42,440 --> 01:21:39,750
pilot sort of downed in the Soviet Union

1575
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:42,450
during the Cold War getting captured and

1576
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:45,690
trying not to be hypnotized by the

1577
01:21:49,850 --> 01:21:47,610
Soviet military that's what it sounds

1578
01:21:53,090 --> 01:21:49,860
like to me mostly from having read the

1579
01:21:55,670 --> 01:21:53,100
book and your account now Oh Gary Powers

1580
01:21:58,490 --> 01:21:55,680
I know the name of the guy yeah yes I

1581
01:22:00,050 --> 01:21:58,500
think well I don't know if it was him

1582
01:22:03,620 --> 01:22:00,060
that went through it but I know that was

1583
01:22:06,890 --> 01:22:03,630
the that was the drill when the Soviets

1584
01:22:08,630 --> 01:22:06,900
would get one of our guys I made the

1585
01:22:10,910 --> 01:22:08,640
decision that I would try to bifurcate

1586
01:22:13,310 --> 01:22:10,920
my mind I would try to divide it into

1587
01:22:15,510 --> 01:22:13,320
compartments and he could have a little

1588
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:15,520
compartment here and then

1589
01:22:20,970 --> 01:22:17,530
would have this compartment over here

1590
01:22:24,180 --> 01:22:20,980
where I would I ran through Beatle music

1591
01:22:28,020 --> 01:22:24,190
I went through the tunes I went through

1592
01:22:30,060 --> 01:22:28,030
the lyrics of Rolling Stone songs I did

1593
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:30,070
everything I could to keep my mind as

1594
01:22:36,750 --> 01:22:33,010
occupied as possible and just enough to

1595
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:36,760
answer his questions and what happened

1596
01:22:45,390 --> 01:22:40,570
was that medication I I resisted but

1597
01:22:47,850 --> 01:22:45,400
that medication took took effect and I

1598
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:47,860
have some blank spots there that I can't

1599
01:22:55,050 --> 01:22:52,210
account for but I recall the captain

1600
01:22:58,440 --> 01:22:55,060
saying I'm amazed every time I see this

1601
01:23:00,140 --> 01:22:58,450
process like in a whisper and I think my

1602
01:23:07,700 --> 01:23:00,150
god how many people do they do this to

1603
01:23:10,530 --> 01:23:07,710
and then major Gregory says is he under

1604
01:23:13,860 --> 01:23:10,540
he's like oh yeah he was he was under by

1605
01:23:19,670 --> 01:23:13,870
count of three and I you're arrogant

1606
01:23:23,490 --> 01:23:19,680
uh-huh so then the questions began and

1607
01:23:26,970 --> 01:23:23,500
he asked me questions and he says now

1608
01:23:31,290 --> 01:23:26,980
Terry and his forks he had a voice you

1609
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:31,300
wanted to listen to you wanted to he

1610
01:23:36,660 --> 01:23:34,210
said Terry I want you to tell me what

1611
01:23:39,180 --> 01:23:36,670
you saw we're gonna look around and

1612
01:23:40,290 --> 01:23:39,190
you're gonna tell me what you saw not

1613
01:23:44,930 --> 01:23:40,300
what you think

1614
01:23:49,860 --> 01:23:44,940
I want you to tell me what you saw and

1615
01:23:53,610 --> 01:23:49,870
it was crazy because in my mind's eye it

1616
01:23:55,950 --> 01:23:53,620
all came back to me and I think what he

1617
01:23:58,530 --> 01:23:55,960
did was I think he dragged this up and I

1618
01:24:01,230 --> 01:23:58,540
think he he dragged this out of my

1619
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:01,240
subconscious and into my conscious

1620
01:24:06,090 --> 01:24:04,690
memory because I said things I couldn't

1621
01:24:11,430 --> 01:24:06,100
believe that were coming out of my mouth

1622
01:24:16,110 --> 01:24:11,440
and I had images and flashes of things

1623
01:24:19,860 --> 01:24:16,120
that they did to us on the track no clue

1624
01:24:22,230 --> 01:24:19,870
on the craft things they did to you

1625
01:24:24,750 --> 01:24:22,240
wander craft - Terry is that the things

1626
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:24,760
we did things - yes things they did to

1627
01:24:29,430 --> 01:24:26,730
be on the craft the inside of the crowd

1628
01:24:32,729 --> 01:24:29,440
yeah I described the inside

1629
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:32,739
and sanic rap was amazing and I could

1630
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:35,170
see it in my mind's eye like watching

1631
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:38,290
motion picture almost and it was just

1632
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:40,650
enormous it was like a giant warehouse

1633
01:24:46,410 --> 01:24:43,690
it looked larger inside then it looked

1634
01:24:48,810 --> 01:24:46,420
outside and I remembered that in a

1635
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:48,820
corner were three flying saucers there

1636
01:24:54,140 --> 01:24:51,489
were three discs parked in a row parked

1637
01:24:58,860 --> 01:24:54,150
in the line there was a moving sidewalk

1638
01:25:01,020 --> 01:24:58,870
there were people milling around there

1639
01:25:03,390 --> 01:25:01,030
were these there were the gray people

1640
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:03,400
the little gray guys which by the way I

1641
01:25:07,410 --> 01:25:04,690
don't think those Peter I don't think

1642
01:25:10,650 --> 01:25:07,420
those were living beings I think those

1643
01:25:15,510 --> 01:25:10,660
were robots I really do and then there

1644
01:25:19,709 --> 01:25:15,520
were the the the tall alien typical

1645
01:25:23,070 --> 01:25:19,719
alien looking guys and they were walking

1646
01:25:25,650 --> 01:25:23,080
about and I remembered that as we're

1647
01:25:30,540 --> 01:25:25,660
walking along one of the alien guys

1648
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:30,550
caught my eye and I just shivered when

1649
01:25:35,130 --> 01:25:33,130
he looked at you it was like I felt like

1650
01:25:39,180 --> 01:25:35,140
naked I felt like he knew me he felt

1651
01:25:43,410 --> 01:25:39,190
like he could see inside my head there

1652
01:25:45,750 --> 01:25:43,420
were I saw a group of 50 or 60 people

1653
01:25:51,300 --> 01:25:45,760
that were inside that thing humans

1654
01:25:53,340 --> 01:25:51,310
people have not aliens humans right and

1655
01:25:56,370 --> 01:25:53,350
it was a mixed bag of men women and

1656
01:25:59,100 --> 01:25:56,380
children and they're all standing around

1657
01:26:02,490 --> 01:25:59,110
summer nude holding their clothes as

1658
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:02,500
summer dressed and I thought my god

1659
01:26:08,610 --> 01:26:04,810
where did these people come from you

1660
01:26:11,370 --> 01:26:08,620
know and that haunts me to this day and

1661
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:11,380
I wonder you know what we were lucky to

1662
01:26:20,820 --> 01:26:14,410
get away what happened to those poor

1663
01:26:25,459 --> 01:26:20,830
souls I don't know and I described all

1664
01:26:30,180 --> 01:26:25,469
these things to Brad and I told him that

1665
01:26:33,930 --> 01:26:30,190
this being this hybrid being right an

1666
01:26:37,919 --> 01:26:33,940
encounter with later who I refer to as

1667
01:26:40,410 --> 01:26:37,929
Betty was walking with me and we walked

1668
01:26:43,110 --> 01:26:40,420
past there were aquariums what look like

1669
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:43,120
aquariums on the side of the wall

1670
01:26:49,260 --> 01:26:46,690
filled with pink fluid and everything

1671
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:49,270
else was white and the inside was

1672
01:26:57,270 --> 01:26:54,370
brilliantly lit and inside of the tank

1673
01:27:00,810 --> 01:26:57,280
there was one of these fetus like

1674
01:27:04,110 --> 01:27:00,820
looking things and it twitched and I

1675
01:27:05,730 --> 01:27:04,120
screamed I must have screamed because I

1676
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:05,740
must have passed out

1677
01:27:11,430 --> 01:27:08,170
the next thing I recall he was taking my

1678
01:27:13,770 --> 01:27:11,440
blood pressure and saying you know he

1679
01:27:15,210 --> 01:27:13,780
was holding my hand and actually it felt

1680
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:15,220
good to hold his head because I was

1681
01:27:19,790 --> 01:27:18,250
terrified I was so scared and he said

1682
01:27:21,540 --> 01:27:19,800
Terry you're in a warm safe place

1683
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:21,550
nobody's gonna hurt you

1684
01:27:24,990 --> 01:27:23,440
everything is okay you're gonna

1685
01:27:27,090 --> 01:27:25,000
everything is just fine

1686
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:27,100
you're just seeing things that are in

1687
01:27:33,330 --> 01:27:30,730
the past they can't hurt you now now

1688
01:27:35,580 --> 01:27:33,340
tell me what you saw and he pressed me

1689
01:27:39,090 --> 01:27:35,590
and I didn't want to be pressed I wanted

1690
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:39,100
to stop sure but he pressed me and I

1691
01:27:46,020 --> 01:27:42,370
told him oh my god I told him that I

1692
01:27:49,290 --> 01:27:46,030
could hear Toby screaming I could hear

1693
01:27:51,210 --> 01:27:49,300
Toby screaming and I remember thinking

1694
01:27:54,740 --> 01:27:51,220
why are these guys why are whoa why do

1695
01:27:57,210 --> 01:27:54,750
they hurt us why are they hurting us and

1696
01:28:01,560 --> 01:27:57,220
the whole thing of course then had that

1697
01:28:03,390 --> 01:28:01,570
ring of familiarity like you know I know

1698
01:28:05,970 --> 01:28:03,400
that's all ooh I know to describe it a

1699
01:28:08,460 --> 01:28:05,980
feeling of familiarity because it had

1700
01:28:09,030 --> 01:28:08,470
happened before perhaps when you were a

1701
01:28:13,340 --> 01:28:09,040
child

1702
01:28:16,650 --> 01:28:13,350
it was a familiar scenario to you yes

1703
01:28:18,780 --> 01:28:16,660
and I recall that I was undressed at one

1704
01:28:23,580 --> 01:28:18,790
point and I was on a table and I was in

1705
01:28:27,090 --> 01:28:23,590
mobile and they were doing medical like

1706
01:28:31,970 --> 01:28:27,100
procedures on me and they took sperm

1707
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:31,980
from me and I recall they had a machine

1708
01:28:37,860 --> 01:28:34,650
thing could it look like an oxygen mask

1709
01:28:42,090 --> 01:28:37,870
that they placed over my genitals and

1710
01:28:43,650 --> 01:28:42,100
embarrassing but and I told Brad I said

1711
01:28:50,550 --> 01:28:43,660
they put it over you and then it's like

1712
01:28:55,110 --> 01:28:50,560
BAM and you had no control over and I

1713
01:28:55,989 --> 01:28:55,120
told Brad about the woman and I going to

1714
01:29:02,830 --> 01:28:55,999
move

1715
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:02,840
and what I called the big ship and this

1716
01:29:11,830 --> 01:29:07,010
woman and I were in a ship and I think

1717
01:29:16,779 --> 01:29:11,840
this occurred during an abduction when I

1718
01:29:19,060 --> 01:29:16,789
was child mm-hmm and I remember we were

1719
01:29:21,729 --> 01:29:19,070
looking out these gigantic windows and

1720
01:29:23,830 --> 01:29:21,739
seeing these billions of stars but there

1721
01:29:25,209 --> 01:29:23,840
was no sensation of movement I felt like

1722
01:29:29,350 --> 01:29:25,219
we were I assumed knew we were in a

1723
01:29:32,589 --> 01:29:29,360
building and suddenly the moon comes

1724
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:32,599
from right to left and just rolls over

1725
01:29:39,430 --> 01:29:36,050
and I'm like oh my god this thing's

1726
01:29:41,830 --> 01:29:39,440
gonna hit us and telepathically she

1727
01:29:48,669 --> 01:29:41,840
assured me everything is okay everything

1728
01:29:50,739 --> 01:29:48,679
is all right and I remember asking her

1729
01:29:54,100 --> 01:29:50,749
hey I was we communicate telepathically

1730
01:29:58,029 --> 01:29:54,110
and I was wondering how big is this

1731
01:30:01,600 --> 01:29:58,039
thing and she told me in kilometres and

1732
01:30:07,359 --> 01:30:01,610
I remembered it and it was 575

1733
01:30:09,700 --> 01:30:07,369
kilometers by 75 kilometers tall and she

1734
01:30:12,430 --> 01:30:09,710
said that they can never fly in front of

1735
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:12,440
the moon between the moon and the earth

1736
01:30:19,060 --> 01:30:16,010
and I thought why she says because this

1737
01:30:21,580 --> 01:30:19,070
is so large people will see a dot moving

1738
01:30:24,549 --> 01:30:21,590
across the moon so they can never do

1739
01:30:28,029 --> 01:30:24,559
that and she's so our home is on the

1740
01:30:31,209 --> 01:30:28,039
other side and I recall seeing the Dark

1741
01:30:34,959 --> 01:30:31,219
Side of the Moon and it was all dark or

1742
01:30:36,549 --> 01:30:34,969
a little bit and it was dark as you know

1743
01:30:38,979 --> 01:30:36,559
to a.m. anywhere on earth

1744
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:38,989
and then I looked down through this big

1745
01:30:46,060 --> 01:30:41,449
window and I could see all these lights

1746
01:30:48,700 --> 01:30:46,070
and it was a city on the darkness but

1747
01:30:51,250 --> 01:30:48,710
it's it was curious because I mean it

1748
01:30:54,399 --> 01:30:51,260
was like flying into LAX except there

1749
01:30:57,430 --> 01:30:54,409
were no streets you know there when you

1750
01:30:59,739 --> 01:30:57,440
cities are laid out you know in a

1751
01:31:02,469 --> 01:30:59,749
pattern and there was there was no

1752
01:31:07,239 --> 01:31:02,479
pattern to this it was just random

1753
01:31:15,609 --> 01:31:12,819
and that's what I recalled Wow Terry yes

1754
01:31:18,549 --> 01:31:15,619
I'm going to have to do a little bit of

1755
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:18,559
cutting to the chase because our program

1756
01:31:24,819 --> 01:31:21,530
is as is really over but we're going to

1757
01:31:27,100 --> 01:31:24,829
have to wrap it up in a few minutes so I

1758
01:31:31,290 --> 01:31:27,110
just I really have to appreciate you

1759
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:31,300
telling this very interesting and

1760
01:31:40,270 --> 01:31:36,650
amazing and heartfelt story here of your

1761
01:31:42,700 --> 01:31:40,280
abduction and if I just can sort of

1762
01:31:47,350 --> 01:31:42,710
paraphrase things and cut towards the

1763
01:31:51,700 --> 01:31:47,360
end of it you kind of put this aside for

1764
01:31:58,000 --> 01:31:51,710
a number of years until you had more

1765
01:32:00,640 --> 01:31:58,010
recently in 2012 the the implant was

1766
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:00,650
discovered and then at some juncture

1767
01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:04,130
during the night the implant was removed

1768
01:32:11,350 --> 01:32:06,530
after you were told that it would be

1769
01:32:13,899 --> 01:32:11,360
removed by the hybrid woman Betty and

1770
01:32:17,379 --> 01:32:13,909
they took it except for the two little

1771
01:32:20,589 --> 01:32:17,389
wires which remain to this day but the

1772
01:32:23,259 --> 01:32:20,599
really astounding thing which had

1773
01:32:26,830 --> 01:32:23,269
happened and the interim you finished

1774
01:32:29,529 --> 01:32:26,840
your law degree you became the assistant

1775
01:32:33,250 --> 01:32:29,539
attorney general of American Samoa if I

1776
01:32:35,950 --> 01:32:33,260
got that correctly and then and you move

1777
01:32:40,569 --> 01:32:35,960
along and Vermont oh boy you had quite

1778
01:32:42,129 --> 01:32:40,579
an illustrious career and and then after

1779
01:32:46,810 --> 01:32:42,139
this was removed

1780
01:32:51,029 --> 01:32:46,820
you went from a high end of 240 pounds

1781
01:32:54,250 --> 01:32:51,039
to your current weight of 150 pounds and

1782
01:32:57,160 --> 01:32:54,260
you've been a little bit I won't say

1783
01:32:59,979 --> 01:32:57,170
sick but you've been wasting you've had

1784
01:33:02,830 --> 01:32:59,989
some wasting away and you're still a

1785
01:33:06,669 --> 01:33:02,840
reasonably young man you're only 63

1786
01:33:09,969 --> 01:33:06,679
years old if I'm correct yes and and so

1787
01:33:12,790 --> 01:33:09,979
in a matter of several months you really

1788
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:12,800
you lost a whole lot of weight and and

1789
01:33:17,589 --> 01:33:15,170
now you're in the process of trying to

1790
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:17,599
keep that weight on it have I summarized

1791
01:33:23,740 --> 01:33:21,050
things correctly you are that the

1792
01:33:26,140 --> 01:33:23,750
the weight loss actually came when I

1793
01:33:29,050 --> 01:33:26,150
made the determination to write this

1794
01:33:31,060 --> 01:33:29,060
book and to tell everything because the

1795
01:33:34,210 --> 01:33:31,070
nightmares the nightmares returned it

1796
01:33:36,970 --> 01:33:34,220
was like the fact when they found these

1797
01:33:41,470 --> 01:33:36,980
things in my leg it was a catalyst that

1798
01:33:46,150 --> 01:33:41,480
just it just brought it all out and my

1799
01:33:49,660 --> 01:33:46,160
poor wife I mean she went through waking

1800
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:49,670
up with me screaming again in the middle

1801
01:33:52,810 --> 01:33:50,930
of the night but you know what she did

1802
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:52,820
she's a smart woman I mean I love her to

1803
01:34:00,060 --> 01:33:55,130
death we'd be together 40 some years and

1804
01:34:02,980 --> 01:34:00,070
40 I should know that 44 years but she

1805
01:34:06,630 --> 01:34:02,990
during the worst of the the nightmares

1806
01:34:09,250 --> 01:34:06,640
she suggested that I journal them and

1807
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:09,260
she had me a spiral ring notebook and a

1808
01:34:12,610 --> 01:34:11,090
pen and she said write this stuff down

1809
01:34:14,710 --> 01:34:12,620
when you wake up and you've had this

1810
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:14,720
nightmare write it down

1811
01:34:19,930 --> 01:34:18,050
and I did and thus we have this

1812
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:19,940
wonderful book which I'm going to

1813
01:34:26,650 --> 01:34:22,970
mention again incident at Devil's Den a

1814
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:26,660
true story by Terry Lovelace Esquire and

1815
01:34:34,180 --> 01:34:31,610
it can be gotten on Amazon Terry I'm

1816
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:34,190
going to ask our listeners to write in

1817
01:34:41,620 --> 01:34:39,290
their comments I would like them to tell

1818
01:34:44,980 --> 01:34:41,630
us what they think about your story

1819
01:34:47,170 --> 01:34:44,990
I am very moved by it I have a number of

1820
01:34:51,100 --> 01:34:47,180
questions and I hope that you will agree

1821
01:34:53,110 --> 01:34:51,110
to come back on again I would love to

1822
01:34:54,580 --> 01:34:53,120
come back on again and I'd love to

1823
01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:54,590
answer I'd love to answer every one of

1824
01:34:59,440 --> 01:34:57,050
their questions Thank You Terry thank

1825
01:35:03,430 --> 01:34:59,450
you so very much and I feel terrible but

1826
01:35:05,710 --> 01:35:03,440
we we are on a time schedule that the

1827
01:35:07,750 --> 01:35:05,720
studio is going to be filled with some

1828
01:35:09,700 --> 01:35:07,760
other people very shortly if we don't

1829
01:35:17,260 --> 01:35:09,710
leave they'll be here playing rock and

1830
01:35:20,310 --> 01:35:17,270
roll so so thank you so very much

1831
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:20,320
Terry Lovelace incident at Devil's Den

1832
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:23,690
thanks for being with us and you will be

1833
01:35:28,780 --> 01:35:26,290
hearing from me Terry thank you again a

1834
01:35:34,229 --> 01:35:28,790
great pleasure thank you for having me

1835
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:38,199
well shattered reality listeners that

1836
01:35:44,739 --> 01:35:41,570
was Terry Lovelace and I must say this

1837
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:44,749
was a very moving very unusual very

1838
01:35:52,270 --> 01:35:48,650
heartfelt story and I would love to hear

1839
01:35:55,930 --> 01:35:52,280
what you have to say about it we will be

1840
01:35:58,750 --> 01:35:55,940
back again shortly with a new podcast

1841
01:36:04,680 --> 01:35:58,760
and please remember to Like us on

1842
01:36:11,290 --> 01:36:08,370
shattered reality podcast dot

1843
01:36:12,879 --> 01:36:11,300
wordpress.com and shattered reality

1844
01:36:17,379 --> 01:36:12,889
podcast com

1845
01:36:20,080 --> 01:36:17,389
we are also on iTunes and many of our

1846
01:36:23,020 --> 01:36:20,090
episodes are on YouTube and we're

1847
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putting more up every week so please

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feel free to contact us with any of your

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experiences of the paranormal whether

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they be UFOs or other things and

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hopefully by our next podcast Kate

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Valentine will be able to join us for

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the entire show we're going to be

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working on the technical aspects of that

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so she'll be back for us and so now